Introduction – the Bishop's early history – general views on the challenges facing the Church in vocations and communications – his views on Vatican II and the papacy of Pope John Paul II

IF THE MEDIA CONTROLLERS ARE NOT VISIBLE ON THIS PAGE: There should be a media controller above this block of text, and in the equivalent places further down this page. If you cannot see it you most probably do not have the Java or Media Player plug ins installed on your computer. You can still hear the segments by donwloading the original audio file and listening to them separately. To do that right click on the link and save the file to your hard disk and play it manually.
LINK: Bishop Manning Interview – Segment 1 [9m09s 4.3Mb]

"It seems as though the priesthood has become fairly middle class … today I think the young people have got it too good … they think there's too much to give up in order to become a priest. To be a priest one has to have a certain amount of courage."

Confusion one of the causes as to why participation rates have dropped so dramatically – Middle class church – Catholic schools – Priests and bishops distanced from the people. Recent popes have done a good job

IF NO MEDIA CONTROLLER IS VISIBLE ABOVE USE THIS LINK: Bishop Manning Interview – Segment 2 [11m10s 5.2Mb]

"We've become a middle class church … we've lost the poor people out of our schools – we've become too middle class; our schools have become too costly – and, to me, that's telling a story right through the church. We are neglecting the poor and the needy."

Caring for the poor as core mission — Social Justice — Changing the structures in society — Intellectualising of our faith — Multiculturalism explains high participation in Parramatta — Politicians and conscience

IF NO MEDIA CONTROLLER IS VISIBLE ABOVE USE THIS LINK: Bishop Manning Interview – Segment 3 [9m50s 4.6Mb]

"When we lose that sensitivity for other people—people who are suffering, people who need compassion—and start theologizing about things and leave it up on the intellectual level we're not doing the job. … My conclusion is that as we climb up the social ladder and become nice and comfortable in our lives with money and affluence and everything else we don't need God. I think this is what has happened in many of our parishes."

A more detailed section of the interview on Primacy of Conscience. The Bishop also discusses the drop in interest in the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession) and suggests reasons why he thinks it has occurred.

IF NO MEDIA CONTROLLER IS VISIBLE ABOVE USE THIS LINK: Bishop Manning Interview – Segment 4 [9m41s 4.5Mb]

"I still believe the radical drop off in people using the confessional is related to conscience. I think we've become in some ways not conscious enough of the seriousness of obligations. And I certainly wouldn't want to go back to the pre-Vatican II Council where, 50 or 60 years ago, every single thing was a prohibition or directive where people didn't have a conscience and members of the Church directed their consciences. But now I believe it's gone somewhat the other way."

COMMENT FROM BRIAN COYNE: The foregoing section of the interview on Primacy of Conscience is one section of the interview I was not particularly happy with from my point of view as interviewer. I felt I should have pressed the point a little more strongly with the Bishop that there is an alternative way educated people are approaching this matter of Primacy of Conscience. I am not sure if the Bishop does not appreciate that, or if it was merely a case of him not understanding what I was endeavouring to drive at under the pressure of an interview. Later in the interview, Bishop Manning refers (disparagingly) to the behaviours of what he labels as "heresy hunters". That is precisely the sort of behaviour I was referring to in my example of where there can be a range of "morally correct, and incorrect responses, to a given set of circumstances where the parameters are subtlely different and can lead to vastly different judgments of what is morally correct and what is morally incorrect". "Heresy hunting" is a good example where, in many cases, the matters are simply not the business of the person trying to prove where some other person is sinning or engaging in immoral behaviour. Perhaps I might be able to take this up with Bishop Manning at some other point, or perhaps he might discuss it in his regular newspaper column and we can reproduce any further thoughts he has on this matter in our pages as well. To spell the proposition out: Myself and, it seems to me, many other educated Catholics do understand what the Bishop is referring to in his understanding of Primacy of Conscience but there is another understanding of Primacy of Conscience, or formation and application of conscience, which the Church and its Bishops do not provide us with much guidance about. This other understanding is: how we go about actually making these difficult moral choices in "good conscience" where the underlying parameters are subtle or difficult to navigate through? We don't want to be continually given lectures on what the Sixth Commandment, or any other Commandment, state. I submit, many people are seeking guidance in the process of discerning through the various teachings of the Church to make the particular morally correct choice when the actual attendant parameters are confusing or subtle.

Humanae Vitae — cause of difficulties but doesn't believe any mistake was made. Catholic Education – in good shape – doesn't approve of private & government schools taking our best students. Thoughts on "heresy hunters".

IF NO MEDIA CONTROLLER IS VISIBLE ABOVE USE THIS LINK: Bishop Manning Interview – Segment 5 [10m09s 4.8Mb]

"On 'Heresy Hunters': the only person worthwhile to them is a person stuck in the Church 24 hours a day, who has got no relation with anybody else. They know all the answers — they have all the answers in their mind. They're just looking for heresies. They are brutal in their judgments. This is not Christianity … With these radical right wing Catholics one has to ask: 'what are you looking for? Are you taking the place of God. You've got no compassion. You've got no love for your fellow human being. You're just out to cut his head off.'"

The Role of the Laity in the Church has not been properly explained or understood. He outlines aspects as to how the role should be viewed — both what it is and what it isn't. Politicisation and professionalisation of Religion.

IF NO MEDIA CONTROLLER IS VISIBLE ABOVE USE THIS LINK: Bishop Manning Interview – Segment 6 [13m02s 6.1Mb]

"On the Role of the Laity: It's not around cleaning up the Church, doing the Church gardens and so on which prior to the Vatican Council seemed to be the only outlet for the laity. … It's [also] not in trying to change the structures of the Church itself. Certainly they can be advisers to the hierarchy … but it's not a matter of them just 'taking over' and informing them with lay ideas or political ideas and seeing the Church as just another area of politics."

APOLOGY RE RECORDING QUALITY: Could I extend an apology for the "pumping" of the volume that is evident in the recording. Unfortunately I recorded the interview with the automatic level control on and it has resulted in some "pumping" of the volume which I have not been able to entirely eliminate in the post-production phase. …BMC

Brian Coyne can be contacted at editor@catholica.com.au