Catholica Interview with three young people distanced from the Church

Catholic Education…

Not "three wise men" but three "very naughty boys"!

As the publishers of Catholica Australia and ourselves the parents of adult children, Amanda McKenna and I (Brian Coyne, editor of Catholica), like many parents of adult children have slowly come to a realisation that the accepted wisdoms put forward by the conservative sectors of the hierarchy why so many people have absented themselves from regular participation do not hold much water. In our experience the view that people have been sucked out of the Church by secular humanism, consumerism, laziness or the other distractions of contemporary society seem to be the wisdom of men who have never had a 24/7, 18+ year commitment to raising a family, or they are the naive or idealistic beliefs still held by sectors of the population who have not yet reached the end of the process in rearing a family to adulthood. As with any story, there are exceptions, but the foregoing seems to us to be the general picture. The institution needs to start taking responsibility for its own behaviours which have driven many people to seek spiritual answers in other places. There are significant failings in the Church's own communication methods and the agenda.

One of the objectives in creating this cyber community at Catholica Australia has been a genuine attempt to explore the fullness of reasons why so many people have become disenchanted with the institutional Church. In particular we have made a number of endeavours seeking to elicit the perspectives of young people themselves in the post-secondary to post-tertiary sector of the population who are disenchanted. In these interviews today we will be hearing from three young men, all good mates, who went to the same Catholic school about eight years ago. They share a house today in inner Sydney with a couple of others — also from the same school — who unfortunately could not be present when we did the recording.

We have broken the interviews into bite-sized segments of about ten minutes duration. James and Luke are the two interviewees throughout all segments and Nick joined us for the fourth and fifth segments. The house we recorded the interview in also serves as a recording studio as most of the guys are connected with the music industry and we apologise in advance for the low-level ambient music in the later segments of the interview. That was coming from a recording session in the room next door.

The recording has only been slightly edited as we wanted, as far as possible, to let these young people speak freely in an attempt to gain an insight into what their perspectives are today about religion, spirituality and how they look back on the education experience they received at a Catholic secondary school. Unlike some of the other youthful contributors we've had on Catholica, one would not normally expect these young people to sit down and write some long essay exploring their opinions on these matters. From that point of view these young people in these interviews are likely to be far more representative of the average young person who has been through the Catholic Education system in recent times. …Brian Coyne, Editor


Introduction – background about their school experiences — eight years since they left school — what proportion of their friends are still involved (perhaps 5 in every 100) — when did they become disenchanted — God
	IF NO MEDIA CONTROLLER IS VISIBLE ABOVE USE THIS LINK: Interview with James & Luke– Segment 1 [10m40s 3.66Mb] “The whole church thing — the whole Catholic community thing — to be honest I think it's a dying tradition … it's enough for people to say they're 'Catholic' or 'Christian' or whatever. It's just like saying that you're 'Australian' or whatever.” …Luke

How they deal with tough experiences — Attitude to religious people in general — Muslim extremists and terrorists — Why people believe — What has Catholicism contributed to the world … and to them — School retreats
	IF NO MEDIA CONTROLLER IS VISIBLE ABOVE USE THIS LINK: Interview with James & Luke– Segment 2 [12m06s 4.16Mb] “It goes from that to Rome with the Vatican City having massive amounts of power and massive amounts of communication — they had people running between every city — this communication spread religion. Uneducated people all over Europe did what they were told.” …James

Does religion provide some sort of framework for relationships — where would society derive its moral values if there was no God or religion — where they get their sense of identity — liturgy and secular events — music
	IF NO MEDIA CONTROLLER IS VISIBLE ABOVE USE THIS LINK: Interview with James and Luke – Segment 3 [16m08s 5.54Mb] “When you asked before if I'm spiritual: if I ever feel spiritual it's usually at a big festival and there's thousands of young people around and we're all there for the same reason which is like … music. And the only thing going through people's minds is the music … and on that day, it doesn't matter who you're with, what religion you are, what you're wearing.” …Luke

Nick joins the conversation: Driving goals in life — school perceived as keeping people out of trouble — needs to be more emphasis in education on teaching people how to think — a discussion about having babies
	IF NO MEDIA CONTROLLER IS VISIBLE ABOVE USE THIS LINK: Interview with James, Luke and Nick – Segment 4 [11m46s 4.04Mb] "When you finally harness or tap into something that is good, and you produce something - it's like bringing a child into the world. I don't care for a house, or any of that materialist rubbish. I just want to make music - things that will stay behind and have more resonance." …Luke

Marriage and babies — From an "extreme" Christian family — Religion "denies" creativity — Life beyond death — Richard Dawkins — Lourdes and miracles — Parish experience — Religion not relevant in times of need.
	IF NO MEDIA CONTROLLER IS VISIBLE ABOVE USE THIS LINK: Interview with James, Luke and Nick – Segment 5 [12m47s 4.39Mb] "Hillsong, Hillsong. Like guys I've worked with - religious people I've encountered over the last few years like Hillsong guys - they're the nicest people. They're overly nice. They're freakishly nice. They don't lie. They're the most honest people I've known. They'll do anything for you ………… something's not quite right though!" …James

On reflection (meditating) — life directions — travel and being constrained by possessions — lack of fear — parenting influences and how they feel they've been shaped by those — what they'd want for their children.
	IF NO MEDIA CONTROLLER IS VISIBLE ABOVE USE THIS LINK: Interview with James and Luke – Segment 6 [9m33s 3.28Mb] "I'd want my kids to make up their own mind. With the whole school thing, I'd put my kids in a school that was more creative-based - doing more things like arts, drama, music. If you look at all the schools around they're more focused on maths, English - and creative arts are at the bottom." …Luke


Dear James, Luke and Nick, whatever some may think, Amanda and I don't think you're booked on a one-way ticket to hell. We're very impressed by all of you in fact! You may not be able to yet see it but we believe your parents, your teachers, your schools have an enormous amount to be proud of in how you present yourselves. They also would applaud your honesty, your candour, your sincerity and the courage with which you have faced the challenges in your lives and in the self-evident love you all show for one another and for your wider communities and our world. Thank you for the time you gave us in recording this interview and for your courage in sharing your opinions with us so honestly. Brian and Amanda

Husband and wife team, Amanda McKenna and Brian Coyne are the publishers of Catholica Australia. Brian can be contacted at editor@catholica.com.au. Amanda can be contacted at amandamckenna@catholica.com.au

[Index to special series by young people]
[Index to Catholic Education Articles]

How economic inequality harms societies... We feel instinctively that societies with huge income gaps are somehow going wrong. Richard Wilkinson charts the hard data on economic inequality, and shows what gets worse when rich and poor are too far apart: real effects on health, lifespan, even such basic values as trust. Richard Wilkinson, is Professor Emeritus of Social Epidemiology at the University of Nottingham, and cofounder of The Equality Trust, a nonprofit that aims to reduce income inequality by educating and engaging the public while supporting political commitment to address the problem. 16m55s [String on the Catholica Forum where the general issue of wealth inequality and this documentary was first discussed 25Jan12] | [WATCH THE VIDEO]

Doco 035: 25Jan12

Diarmuid O'Murchu in Perth, February 2012

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