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Kerry Gonzales and Brian Coyne...
What moral limits are we called to personally in opposing tyranny?

Catholica commentator, Kerry Gonzales, and myself, Brian Coyne, editor, were the two invited to stir up a good discussion at the Sutherland Shire Spirituality in the Pub meeting on Wednesday night. Our addresses certainly seemed to fire up a vigorous discussion on the relevance, or factual truth, of various parts of the Creed today and on wider related issues of how the institution seems incapable of responding to the questions many educated people have today on fundamental questions to do with our beliefs as Christians and Catholics. We reproduce here the discussion-starter addresses each of us gave which stirred up the very interesting and positive discussion.

A discussion on attitudes towards the Creed...

Unfortunately my recorder cut out just before the final paragraph of Kerry's address where she outlined the sort of Creed she could subscribe to. The full text of her address is now available as a pdf document HERE. (There is also some background noise coming from a function in the room next to ours that comes though on the tape from time to time.)

Kerry Gonzales...

If the three media players are not visible on this page you can download the audio files from the links given at the end of this page.

Brian Coyne's views on the importance of the Creed have changed significantly over the last couple of decades. In his address he traced some of the key turning points which have led him to the position of seeing the message of Jesus primarily not as some "Credal" set of beliefs but as a way of behaving — we human beings are not engaged in some game of trying to prove we know some Creed better than everyone else, Jesus primarily calls each of us into a "Way of thinking and acting" — a way of responding to the challenges and uncertainties of life. Making the correct moral judgments in the often vexed and far from morally clear choices we face in our journey through life. Jesus models for us how to think and act as the pathway to ourselves "becoming like God" to borrow the words of St Gregory of Nyssa.

Brian Coyne (with an introduction by Kevin Grant)...

The Year 2000 "I Believe" Proposal

The image at right is a copy of the handout I provided at this point in the address. Click HERE or on the image at right to read the text full size in a pdf document of the proposal I put up in 1991 for a Great Jubilee Project for the Year 2000. This project didn't get off the ground but others I was involved with did. (You can see some of them at this link on my own webpage.)

As discussed by Kerry and quite a few others in the follow-up discussion many people today seem to have questions about some of the credal statements. Quite a number on the night were quite public in saying they disagree with some of the credal statements we ordinarily say at Mass.

My own views are more nuanced. I still broadly accept the credal statements in the sense of mythos, rather than logos. At the end of everything though, as argued in the second part of my address below, fundamentally I don't believe following Jesus, or being a Catholic is about "Creeds" anyway. I do believe the Church needs to do a lot of work in this domain. ...Brian Coyne

"I Believe" Jubilee Proposal

The conclusion to Brian Coyne's address...

The beauty of these SIP gatherings is that they are like a slightly expanded version of the conversations many of us have in the privacy of our own homes these days. People do have a sense of freedom to speak from the heart and express their truthful feelings about various aspects of Church teaching and their own beliefs. There was certainly a very positive discussion generated on Wednesday night. Let us hope we can stimulate a similar discussion in cyberspace. What are your views: do you believe we need a new creed; are you happy with all the beliefs you are asked to subscribe to in the existing Creed; do you believe parts of it are out of date because of advances in our knowledge; do you perhaps believe too much emphasis is placed on the Creed and the real point of believing should have its emphasis in other places?

Brian Coyne ended his address quoting these words from last Sunday’s Catholica email: “:Catholicism, modelled on the life and thinking of Jesus Christ, is a unique way of thinking — and acting — one's way through life. That's the real contribution it has to make to human civilisation. At its authentic best it is NOT some game trying to prove that we know God's rules better than everyone else. It is a system of thought that encourages each individual to develop their God-given talents to the maximum and encourages them not to wallow in their hang-ups and insecurities but literally to look at life, their neighbours and creation itself through the eyes and psyche of God's Godself. It encourages people to love themselves and to love one another. It encourages us to be gentle with ourselves and with one another. It's not some game that encourages us to trammel all those who don't think like us into the pavement to prove how superior we are. It encourages us to try and understand life as seen through the eyes, and pains, of our neighbours and enemies. We are not encouraged to be some 'war-like' army who are out to convert the rest of humanity to what we perceive are our rules, or even what we perceive to be God's rules. Catholicism at heart is a gentle, very peaceful, and peace-filling quest seeking to encourage each individual to literally "become like God" — to think and act and love as though each of us were the Creators of Everything.”
Links to Audio files (right click and save to your hard disk):
www.catholica.com.au/media/mp3/KerrySIP_22-24.mp3
www.catholica.com.au/media/mp3/Brian01SIP_22-24.mp3
www.catholica.com.au/media/mp3/Brian02SIP_22-24.mp3

©2009 Kerry Gonzales and Brian Coyne

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