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Age newspaper story today (Main Forum)
by Roy 
, Friday, April 13, 2012, 15:49 (405 days ago)
edited by Roy, Friday, April 13, 2012, 16:02
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/police-to-pass-abuse-death-details-to-coroner-2012041...
I saw this story and watch the vid.
then thought I'd ring the number supplied and after talking to the woman about my case she suggested I approach ethical standards 
rang back again and tried to keep it together ....they will not hear me and tell me to go to ethical standards or the ombudsman.
so now I'll try and speak with the guy on the vid ..Victoria Police Deputy Commissioner Graham Ashton
two chances I'll bet!
Only way to get heard is through being on that 'list' I guess! 
locked
Roy, Mate, I hate to tell you: there is only one person you need to speak to....
by Brian Coyne 
, LINDEN, NSW, Friday, April 13, 2012, 16:26 (405 days ago) @ Roy
...or any of us need to speak to. His Christened name was Joseph Ratzinger and he is now known as Benedict XVI. And he is as remote from hearing the distress of the people of God as any person in the entire universe could be. He couldn't be more remote and isolated if he lived on Mars judging by the evidence of his inability to hear the pleas of the 86% of the baptised who have walked out of the Church. From his contant homilies and addresses you can detect he only listens to one tiny sector of the population and he is simply not interested in victims of sexual abuse, or anyone who does not think in his mindset and the mindset of this tiny sector of the population whom he sees as his responsibility to serve exclusively. 5% of a billion people is still a very big number and he can last for another 200 years with the "fawning faithful" assembling in St Peter's Square each Wendesday and Sunday telling him what a fabulous chappy he is and still not realise that 95% of his core constituency have stopped listening and are no longer clapping his every utterance as though it were coming from Almighty God himself.
The woman who answered the phone probably feels as useless as any of the rest of us in this forum: "what can I possibly do for this person?" Speaking to the Premier of Victoria might do some good but only from the point of view that eventually with enough Royal Commissions and Grand Juries around the world eventually the man at the top of the institution might get the message that his present agenda has been a diabolical failure and he needs to adopt a new agenda if he is going to re-evangelise the Church let alone evangelise the world, and actually "be worthy of the promises of Christ".
![[image]](http://catholica.com.au/images/CatholicaICO_30x30.jpg)
Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]
lockedRoy, Mate, I hate to tell you: there is only one person you need to speak to....
by Roy , Friday, April 13, 2012, 16:44 (405 days ago) @ Brian Coyne
I just love the way I have been locked out by the attorney general and also the cops.
No one will speak to me while this Victoria Police Deputy Commissioner Graham Ashton raves on on telly about how they want to help and contact victims!
Horse shit that is ......here I am!!!....and not a soul has yet to take a complete statement.
Cops have avoided it since 2000 .....and what about the recent bullshit with samoa etc
Nothing to answer for there apparently.
Well when you see them/Ashton on telly tonight crying out for victims to ring in ....you know it's crap ....I tried it twice and they don't want to know.
what a sham! anyone want to look across the timing of all this and wonder at the beautiful timing of it all ....my messages over easter....then this on telly today)
You all welcome to try yourselves ....Crimestoppers 1800 333 000
also notice the salesians have taken their 'reply' down
http://www.salesians.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=246:to...
(lucky I took a copy)
locked
Roy, Mate, I hate to tell you: there is only one person you need to speak to....
by desi , Australia, Friday, April 13, 2012, 17:40 (405 days ago) @ Roy
My experience tells me that when a TV/Radio/newspaper carries a story where they ask for people to contact the authorities re criminal activities or similar and people get nowhere doing that, then the best course of action is to contact the media outlet direct regarding ones experiences.
Hope you have good fortune with it.
lockedRoy, Mate, I hate to tell you: there is only one person you need to speak to....
Yes Desi, I think that's a good idea as they have been the main players all along in getting anything to actually HAPPEN.
And/but from a previous post today:
I will have to leave that to the experts, though, but I also wonder about experts, as well. It's enough to make you want to retreat from life when it feels like you are being manipulated by people with narcissistic vested interests or things they themselves haven't been able to face up to and who then create theories and lives of influence to which us lesser intelligent and aware mortals must adjust. Like Roy, I scream at this because I do believe we have uncovered so much utter hypocrisy and creepily intense defensiveness and we of the weaker social strata are ALWAYS the ones who suffer, we, the ones who are told need to be represented by the more elites of the world. Well, as far as I am concerned, this is exactly the way of thinking that gave rise to what Debb and Gemstomes and Macbee were talking about above. Thank God, I can now feel the tide turning but there are those with deep vested interests (and sometimes deeply subconscious self-defensive ones, too) that will not let go without a fight: Their psychological and social status survival is on the line. But, look out princes and princesses (mainly princes) of all types, your day is passing.
The church WILL put up a huge and secret fight to suppress an inquiry, it will.
Oh yet we trust that somehow good
Will be the final goal of ill
lockedVictoria Police: Catholic Church non-cooperative on sexual abuse
by PeterR , Friday, April 13, 2012, 17:24 (405 days ago) @ Roy
edited by PeterR, Friday, April 13, 2012, 17:46
Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God
I just listened to all THREE interviews and you know, I thought I had it all figured out but when people come out and say as plain as day that something stinks in the beautious caverns of Holy Mother Church then it's just "Oh my God".
As trainee teachers we had the police come to talk to us and tell us in no uncertain terms that if we suspected child abuse of any sort then it was mandatory that we report it, mandatory: It had just been made so (1987). How the hell does the church get off then not reporting every single case that comes to it, to the police? Oh that's right they're filthy secular institutions way below them and of course the church has to maintain its role as parters of the Red Sea of life and to heaven for all the poor banished children of Eve.
Trust me people, there is a lot more going on behind the scenes in the church than they want anyone to know. Put it this way, I have no doubt whatsoever as to the accuracy and spirit of what Chrissie Foster's book tried so poignantly to reveal.
Just listen to the THREE interviews and you will get a minute taste of what Roy has been dealing with and what many of us have experienced to a lesser extent. The other thing that shocked me while listening was that I was so close to being one of the suicide statistics: I still cannot face that or make that sink in.
And the bishop told me to just move on. Well, we are moving on and will become a force for them to reckon with and then it will be time for them to 'move on' and hopefully become more like Christ: Remember him?
Oh yet we trust that somehow good
Will be the final goal of ill
lockedOh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God
by desi , Australia, Friday, April 13, 2012, 18:21 (405 days ago) @ Oh Yet We Trust
Stephen, you, and others like you, are already a force to be reckoned with.
Let NO-ONE have any doubt about that.
lockedInstitutions always stick together
by Nicholas , Friday, April 13, 2012, 18:36 (405 days ago) @ desi
My experience when trying to get somewhere with a justice issue re the RC Church was that the institutions stick together. Their respective welfares depend upon one another. They are woven from the same cloth I suppose -- and interwoven.
In with one, in with all. Out with one, out with all. Ecclesiastical (even different denominations) or secular (esp education institutions - in my case) - it makes no difference.
Since the first experience of that I have tested it on many other occasions, and it is verified every time.
It does not surprise me that police hesitate to challenge church. There has been an 'arrangement' for yonks.
lockedA submitted question to Q & A (not used).
by desi , Australia, Friday, April 13, 2012, 18:54 (405 days ago) @ Nicholas
'Shouldn't there be an independent enquiry into the Sexual Abuse Scandal in the Catholic Church in Australia? Does the panel agree?'.
How could anyone not agree after reading this article and listening to the three interviews.
http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/neil-mitchell-blog/victoria-police-catholic-church-noncoope...
lockedWeird way to proceed though ..police talking to media ....why is that?
by Roy , Friday, April 13, 2012, 20:04 (405 days ago) @ desi
edited by Roy, Friday, April 13, 2012, 20:29
More interesting to see who isn't reporting this story.
HeraldSun seem to be light on and as the MLAs told me (face to face) the Age stories are just ignored by those in power in Vic because it's the Age 
"The attorney at the moment is looking at the broader issues"
says the copper on 3AW
http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/neil-mitchell-blog/victoria-police-catholic-church-noncoope...
Lets just see what happens ....but I do ask myself why a senior policeman needs to beg on national television for an inquiry.
Strange way to go about it I would have thought.
lockedAnd what of those that do report?
As trainee teachers we had the police come to talk to us and tell us in no uncertain terms that if we suspected child abuse of any sort then it was mandatory that we report it, mandatory: It had just been made so (1987 - Qld).
In regards to teachers and others, if or when the inquiry happens I so hope and would call for the inquiry to include how some teachers or informerr report being treated because they did report or tried to report sexual abuse especially that involving clergy, and this also includes victims who became teachers as well - it's as if a few powers that be just don't want them around. I know of a few teachers who have lost jobs or been pushed out by being told a whole pack of lies in regards to their performances as teachers because they made waves and tried to defend children. If this is the case then in my layman's mind I see this as a severe perversion of the course of justice.
I hope that an inquiry will include this whole extra dimension in its investigation by calling forth teachers or others who have been treated this way. It is a travesty of justice if on one hand we have been told that reporting is mandatory but when it is done that those reporting are treated as anti-Catholic or whatever and ousted or ostracised in one way or another.
Oh yet we trust that somehow good
Will be the final goal of ill
locked
Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God
by Jim B , Australia, Friday, April 13, 2012, 22:06 (405 days ago) @ Oh Yet We Trust
Unlike teachers, clergy are NOT "mandatory reporters" under Victorian law.
Nor is the so-called "Independent Commissioner."
Nor was then-Archbishop Pell.
Nor were any of his predecessors. (Mandatory reporting laws were enacted relatively recently).
Nor is Archbishop Hart.
Nor is his Vicar General.
Nor were any of his predecessors.
My opinion is that all leaders and employees in the church ought be "mandatory reporters" - most especially those responsible for administering the Melbourne Response and Towards Healing.
Currently church staff and employees pass the responsibility for reporting to the police to the victims, and apply pressure to them by ensuring that all support and compensation evaluation ceases while the understandably slow processes of police investigation and if necessary, DPP evaluation, proceed.
BUT Archbishop Hart proclaims "We do not hide any abuse issues" - true, perhaps with some exercise of mental reservation.
lockedPremier hints at inquiry into church sex abuse
by Roy , Saturday, April 14, 2012, 00:00 (404 days ago) @ Jim B
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-13/premier-hints-at-inquiry-into-church-sex-abuse/39...
http://www.skynews.com.au/national/article.aspx?id=739399&vId=
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-13/calls-for-royal-commission-into-catholic-church/3...
https://news.google.com.au/news/story?ncl=http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-13/premier...
lockedTranscript of Lateline program
by Helen , The other side of Australia, Saturday, April 14, 2012, 01:03 (404 days ago) @ Roy
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3477263.htm
Let us light a candle and say to the dark, we beg to differ
lockedTranscript of Lateline program
DENIS HART: If the Government chooses to have an inquiry we will cooperate fully, and I believe that in such an inquiry what we've done in Melbourne and the value of what we've attempted to do will be strongly recognised.
If the Foster's book is any indication of what happened under the Melbourne Response, there won't be very much "recognition". In addition, the $50,000 cap on damages, and the legal impediments to compensation for victims because of the factors considered in NSW in Ellis's case will inevitably be raised, as will the inadequacy of the criminal law in Victoria to require mandatory reporting by clergy, and the claim that the Church's tribunal is indepenent are other issues.
The setting up of a Church commission and the limit of $50,000, was a smart business move by the George Pell, but it can only be seen for what it was - a smart business move, designed to protect the Church's assets.
lockedTranscript of Lateline program
by georgeh , Saturday, April 14, 2012, 10:07 (404 days ago) @ James
> The setting up of a Church commission and the limit of $50,000, was a smart business move by the George Pell, but it can only be seen for what it was - a smart business move, designed to protect the Church's assets.
I would think a lot of Catholics would be grateful for protection of the church's assets?!
georgeh
lockedTranscript of Lateline program
Yes, George, but that is at the expense of the victims who are denied compensation that our Parliaments and communities have deemed is appropriate in cases such as these.
lockedI think the church claimed legal costs of $700,000 for the Ellis case.
The judge even queried the amount ....at least the disproportionate amount each had spent ...Ellis had spent little (as he had little)
they were still holding it over his head the last I'd heard.
experts at shutting you up ....strangely ellis' house was valued at 703 thou at that time.
lockedTranscript of Lateline program
by georgeh , Saturday, April 14, 2012, 10:39 (404 days ago) @ James
That may be so to some extent James?!
However the legal "vampires" sometimes seem to have no limits,I feel?!
georgeh
lockedTranscript of Lateline program
George,
We have a system of compensation in this country, where someone who is attacked and injured, physically or psychologically is entitled to receive an amount as fixed by the Courts, not by the "vampire" lawyers who run the cases. Don't forget, that wherever there is a "vampire" lawyer trying to get compensation out of the Church, there is another, and probably more expensive vampire trying to stop the victim getting a cent.
In some States, for example, NSW, where Parliament considered that the Courts were being too generous in the amount of compensation being awarded, Parliament put restrictions on it.
Whichever way you look at it, this is the amount of compensation that society has determined is fair and just.
Now what the Church has done (but not in all dioceses) is to rely on the Church Property Acts to make sure that the Trustees of the Property Acts have no involvement in the appointment and shifting of priests so as to isolate those assets from claims for compensation. This is exactly the same as what the dirctors of James Hardie did to isolate the assets of the company so that people damaged by their asbestos prducts could not claim proper compensation, as determined by the Courts. It as perfectly legal, but was it moral?
The Melbourne response put an artificial limit of $50,000, recently increased to $75,000, on the amount of compensation received, even if, as in the case of the Foster's daughters, she requires 24 hour care. That usually costs about $5,000 a week. And that is what it trumpets as being "fair".
If the Church hierarchy claim the right to lecture people on morals, they might first ask where is the morality in doing a James Hardie.
lockedTranscript of Lateline program
by georgeh , Saturday, April 14, 2012, 11:25 (404 days ago) @ James
Thanks for that James.
I doubt if money thrown at the problems would solve the moral issues?!
georgeh
lockedTranscript of Lateline program
I doubt if money thrown at the problems would solve the moral issues?!
No George, but it sure as hell can help solve the practical ones resulting from the effects of abuse which if not solved often lead to further horrors and breakdowns and probably further moral issues.
George, I see you a re a kind man who so wants fairness and goodness to reign but seriously, kindness and fairness sometimes require a lot of assertion and even aggression in order to be heard. It is as I keep saying a very unlevel playing field that we lesser mortals have to play on. Yes I thank God we have a playing field at all but if I have learned anything in the past few years is that there are institutions and individuals who have too much power and always at the expense of 'the little people'.
But I do still have some faith in Australian law and democracy even though it may be in bed with the church or other institutions who protect each other's assets. I don't doubt for a minute that there will be so much scurrying and behind closed doors meeting as to how to generate the most damage control if not stop any exposing of truth whose ever version of it that might be. The church does not want this out in the open and I thank God for the media as they are the only institution which is actively (and yes, at times aggressively) working for us rather than against us.
Oh yet we trust that somehow good
Will be the final goal of ill
lockedTranscript of Lateline program
by georgeh , Saturday, April 14, 2012, 17:36 (404 days ago) @ Oh Yet We Trust
Thanks Stephen.
I guess if I got hurt by the church like you and some others, I'd have similar attitudes as well?!
georgeh
lockedTranscript of Lateline program
by desi , Australia, Saturday, April 14, 2012, 17:53 (404 days ago) @ georgeh
Stephen, I have not been hurt by the church, like you and many others, but I have exactly the same attitude as you, especially regarding justice and truth (as well as all the other areas which you so eloquently and bravely share).
lockedTranscript of Lateline program
by georgeh , Saturday, April 14, 2012, 21:42 (404 days ago) @ desi
Yep Stephen, I go along with most what desi says, and hope you do get justice and truth, but above all Peace.
georgeh
lockedTranscript of Lateline program a question for georgeh
by desi , Australia, Sunday, April 15, 2012, 09:48 (403 days ago) @ georgeh
Stephen, I have not been hurt by the church, like you and many others, but I have exactly the same attitude as you, especially regarding justice and truth (as well as all the other areas which you so eloquently and bravely share).
desi
Yep Stephen, I go along with most what desi says, and hope you do get justice and truth, but above all Peace.
georgeh
I wonder, George, which part of what I said you don't 'go along with'?
lockedTranscript of Lateline program a question for georgeh
by georgeh , Sunday, April 15, 2012, 10:10 (403 days ago) @ desi
Probably that you can empathise more with Stephens' attitude than I can desi, I suppose?!
georgeh
lockedTranscript of Lateline program - a question for georgeh
by desi , Australia, Sunday, April 15, 2012, 10:14 (403 days ago) @ georgeh
Probably that you can empathise more with Stephens' attitude than I can desi, I suppose?!
georgeh
Thank you for your reply, georgeh.
I wonder if you would like to expand on why you feel as you do?
lockedTranscript of Lateline program - a question for georgeh
by georgeh , Sunday, April 15, 2012, 12:43 (403 days ago) @ desi
Perhaps a good question desi?!
If and when I knew a short answer to that, I may come back to you?!
georgeh
lockedTranscript of Lateline program a question for georgeh
It's OK George, I have never felt anything but empathy from you (and Desi). In many ways you are very much like me: wanting to see the good in all and finding it very difficult to attack anyone, even though I suppose that's what I am doing with the likes of some princes of the church.
But even then it is not the person but the pain and subterfuge I am wanting dealt with not the destruction of anyone - just their conversion: That's it, I just continually hope and expect that those into the religion of "D"s will turn around and see reality especially that of us who live in the 'bloodied dust' as Morris West called it.
Truly that's all I want, not to mention the chance for my real life to be able to find a footing again and for me to survive in this economically rationalist world. Not too much to ask, is it?
We're all wanting the same thing I believe.
Oh yet we trust that somehow good
Will be the final goal of ill
lockedOh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God
Jim B
I nearly put all those "Oh My God"!!! up myself. people have to realize that the reason why they say GO TO THE POLICE is then it takes longer which gives them the right to say IT'S OUT OF TIME BY LAW thats what they did to me then paid out for all my treatement but not admitting liable, gagged me/Nuns but didn't gage themselves then said the case went for the Church they gagged me so i couldn't print the abusers name in the media.
God Bless All
Macbee
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