The Australian gives 'new' details of + Bill Morris' sacking. (Main Forum)

That's just brilliant Stephen. Congratulations.

Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]

Stephen, in this house we all loved this. As Brian says, it is brilliant. If a picture is worth a thousand words, what about a rapid-fire sequence! And the funny thing is that these photos are not lying. They present the facts in a way that words can't - even allowing for the yawning bishops and a scowling pope as exceptions, not quite fair. As a great presentation of a collection of news photos it made me think that church people en masse are not really photogenic.
(Thanks for your comment on mine in the other thread.)

'TonyL
"A post is a free gift, and it will go where it pleases."'

As I came in from clearing the kitchen after my wife's Mother's Day vigil dinner, she was on the phone to our interstate daughter. As I cleared the table of the pepper grinder etc., the TV showed the beginning of [another - how many are there?] Midsomer Murders. The image was brilliant: a real corpse lashed down to the grass in a model quaint English village.

All Swift came back to me. Immediately, of course, the totally magical film of my boyhood. And then the revelation opened to me of Swift as a societal critic by my Year 11 teacher Tim Kelly, Later readings of this malcontent's explorations of our human conditions - especially as lived out under the constraints imposed by bureaucratically and ecclesiastically modified human males. (The women didn't seem to matter so much: they were mostly victimised out of it - although one or two nasties spewed alerts to those males perceptive enough. - I am going by imprinted experiences here, so you Swiftian afficianados please do not take me down. or, worse, to task.)

Stephen, I hope you've got c/right on this arrangement of material. Otherwise another smart Aussie (Catholic) kid will earn another Oscar from an animation presentation and enter some Hall of Fame. Let me leave the legalisms to James.

What I really want to say, in the present context of the rejection by the Vatican of an inspiringly pastoral bishop in Q/land, is this:

The serried photographs you display of these highest ranking and privileged clergymen of the RCC include not a single man who is free to speak his mind in public about the most urgent problems standing in the way of the 'new evangelisation' that popes of late have urged upon the church.

These problems include

(1) the place of women within Christianity (within RCC in particular):

(2) the status of sexual intercourse in relation to the capacity of humans to mediate the divinity's beatitudes.

Until these two factors are recognised at the level of (a) the Vatican and (b) ordinary Carholics as integral to what is labelled within Roman Catholic academia as 'Christian Anthropology', the voice of the gospel of Jesus of Nazareth has no hope of being heard in our time.

If the reader chooses to recall the images of seas of hierarchical figures in Stephen's collection of images, and imagine which one s/he might approach to promote a real place for women in the Roman Catholic Church, s/he would know (London to a brick) that the first one among that purpled and privileged panoply to speak a public word in favour of women priests or of ordained priests' right to commit to a sexual relationship with a Christian woman (not to mention variations on this theme) would at once be silenced, and then, across a prolonged period, excised from the effete medieval system.

On my wife's advice, it seems that bishops en masse are not likely to follow +Bill Morris to that unnameable place.

The local question (i. e., for Toowoomba, Melbourne... ) is whether any other individual bishop would, in the face of this sheer Vatican power of jurisdiction, which overrides any local bishop's assessment of pastoral priorities, have the gospel vision (and martyr's instinct)?) to stand forth from the gorgeous asembly and say, 'I've got an idea... '

I betcha.

This video clip has now shown up on the VOTF Yahoo group mailing list as well,
CONGRATULATIONS !! Great job of editing Stephen!!

Brian, I just have to ask, how much of this actually takes up the mind space and time of such as the pope and his loyal subjects? I actually rang my local bishop friend a little while ago about my situation (as in employment and fallout from my abuse related breakdown, pleaing with him and the arch to help before I go under - asking them to put in a good/explanatory supportive word for me to my previous employer [I was told to do it myself and did and got a cold business letter back basically saying there had been a legal agreement signed by both parties and I just had to accept that and there would be no changes or chance of re-employment]) and I honestly got the impression that even after all this time and exposure there has still been little real and to the heart impact on those in the hierarchy. It's hard to explain but I almost felt I had to remind him of the sex abuse scandal and of all the deeply troubled people (you know brother and sister Catholics) who are trying to survive: I felt like saying, "Oh just forget it it, it obviously means very little to you. I'll let you off the hook (did say that part) so you can continue to live in your world of your own". How can I or the average person connect with someone like that; how can they connect with me or someone in my position - they have absolutely no idea and have lost the ability for heart to heart human (non-hierarchical) communication - it would complicate their bishopry too much I suspect.

You know, all this (the sorrows of the church) is so much part of our consciousness here because we openly and deeply and often discuss it all so much here but I honestly wonder how much 'they' discuss it to the point of feeling it all, of weeping hearts and contrite minds. Well, the evidence just isn't there and Bishop Morris' demise is just another example of how far gone the present official church is: These representatives of Jesus JUST DO NOT CARE and as such they are NOT representatives of Jesus but pastoral heretics dressed up in the positions of those who only 'officially' care. No doubt they care about (listen to and act on) the Richard Stokeses of this church but it seems that's about all. If there is to be any Stokesian-like bashings and cannibalism, just wait, it'll start happening more and more amongst the remnant once they have lost their audience. Why, because the remnant is motivated not by love and spirituality but by deep unresolved disturbances of the mind (just consider Stokes' 'imagine'.... http://www.catholica.com.au/forum/index.php?id=74593 ) which need to be expressed somehow, somewhere. There are some very scarey Catholics around these days.

Oh yet we trust that somehow good
Will be the final goal of ill

The most damaging part of all this, Brian, may not be the simple fact of a bishop being sacked, but the complete hypocrisy and double standards that the public would see in sacking bishops who discuss matters that have been pronounced infallibly verboten, like women priests, in contrast to keeping those who have been guilty of the most appalling cover up of pedophile priests.

On the other hand, from the Vatican perspective, Benedict is not applying any double standard at all. The bishops who covered up clergy sex assaults on children were doing exactly what Benedict ordered them to do, both as Pope and as his predecessor's eminence gris.

And since, as Fr. Sean McDonagh pointed out at the time of the Royal Commissions in Ireland, if the bishops there condemned were obliged to resign, then so should Benedict XVI.

In that sense, Benedict has been most consistent: cover up clergy sex assault on children (and thereby ensure its continuance) and you can stay a bishop - even be rewarded, like Cardinal Law with his Roman palace (or by his own election as Pope), but question the wisdom of the ban on women priests and you are out on your ear.

That is where the real damage lies and must raise the question of how the Creator of the Universe could ever possibly have wanted this mob to be his "vicars". But Benedict's marketing strategy is right. It can only be the gullible and uneducated that could buy this.

Spot the yawning hypocrisy:

Vatican City, May 5, 2011 / 03:55 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Benedict XVI warned members of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences that religious freedom is coming under a renewed attack, from forces he compared to the totalitarian powers of the twentieth century.

(Read on if you can stomach it)

'Totalitarian powers' Benedict? You mean governments who ... mmm ... let's think of an example ... have judicial processes that are secret, unnaccountable, don't have a presumption of innocence and don't allow the accused to face his accuser? That kind of power, Benedict?

As much as I've found this whole saga deeply disturbing, when all the dust settles what we are left with is a church preaching to the world about principles it doesn't apply to itself. That will endure as another nail in the coffin of institutional church credibility.

Peace to you
For all that has been — Thanks. For all that shall be — Yes. Dag Hammarskjöld

I sent you an email explaining I'd cut this story back to three pars because of my concerns for copyright breaches, particularly at the moment. This is a sensational story though — probably the single most important since this entire saga broke.

Brian, thanks for the e-mail explaining (although not necessary as I would not be concerned by an edit at all), interestingly, I posted the whole article (unusual for me) as I also thought that it was of huge importance.

When I woke this morning I thought 'I wonder if it will be a nine day wonder and come next week it will all be forgotten'.
(Which, of course, is what B16, Pell etc would like!)
Then I read the article and thought 'No, there is much, much more to come out and I think that it's going to be a big ongoing situation'.

My experience tells me that the one thing that most people (especially young people) cannot stand is hypocrisy and here we have (as Tony said) 'a church preaching to the world about principles it doesn't apply to itself'.

The 'good' thing is that it is now not a little local difficulty but is being written about and discussed by a worldwide audience.

Who knows, it could turn from a tragedy into a great opportunity!

-----------
Re your concerns about cpoyright:

Being uninformed in these matters, I thought that as long as the source was quoted/linked then that was OK.
Perhaps you might like to post some guidelines (especially with many new members coming on board) as I realise the importance of it particularly for any legal implications.

http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&entry_id=4185

No doubt there is. Such actions are never made lightly. And reading some of Bishop Morris's statements, it's not hard to see how he would have been in the Pope's sights. Yet it seems odd that a bishop convicted and admitting guilty to possession of child pornography should be subjected to a careful canonical process, whereas bishops guilty of mismanagement and doctrinal laxity should be summarily dismissed. As Phil Lawler (who would like to see more "lax" bishops sacked) asks: if bishop X, then why not Y?

More care for those found gulity of sexual crimes than those requesting discussion on married and women priests.

Helen

Let us light a candle and say to the dark, we beg to differ

Hang on Brian you have left out the "cup of tea "

Thanks for that "other" side Brian. It's good to know both sides?!
I am a bit wary though, all this coming from the press?!.
Some of it's readers take news with a grain of salt.
So it would be nice to hear the version from the "church"?! Or has it been released somewhere already?!
georgeh

Some home made pumpkin soup was much nicer.However I'll do a gym session later on rather than having a lie down.

Since when does being a sensible ,considerable pastoral priest rather than an academic theologian mean that someone is not real bright. (I am suprised that Pearson didn't mention that we all talk real slow in the regional Queensland dioceses.)Did Rome not anticipate the reaction not only throughout Australia but elsewhere in the world ? Now that is something that doesn't seem terribly bright to me.

Health problems ? Any basis for this or is he just parroting what someone else has fabricated ? Vexilla regis under the heading "Is the Bishop well ?" merely raises the various issues touched on in the Advent Pastoral letter and the draws the following startling conclusion:"All of these points are alarming and call gravel into question the Bishop's health. No normal, healthy Catholic Bishop could make such errors."

So if you dare hold alternate views you are obviously unwell.

At least Bishop Morris remains as Emeritus bishop rather than being sent to the gulag.No doubt in his retirement he may visit the rest of us down on the funny farm.

Stubboness ? So standing up for a fair go is some negative trait ? Pearson seriously misjudges the Australian character

Which bishops ever harboured ideas of ordaining nuns ? Nuns becoming priests IMHO has never been nothing more than a sad delusion of some male clerics who felt threatened by women religious who dared show leadership and initiative.

National Catholic RECORDER ?

Even though I would rarely agree with him Pearson does write some reasonably good articles.This isn't one of them.Sloppy journalism full of cheap "labels"

PaulW

"a Bex and a good lie down"

Brian, on the lighter side (and heavens we do need it some times) I beleive the quote is from a Philip Street Theatre (Sydney) Revue called "A Cup of Tea, a Bex and a Good Lie Down" put on some time in the 50's - does anyone remeber it? Just curious

Marian

who is hoping for a new way to be church

After Mr Pearson's article, I certainly do not need any of Dr Ford's wonder pills.

I'm indebted to Christopher Pearson for pointing out yet another Canon that declares the Pope to be an absolute dictator in the affairs of the Church - which means, of course, that he does not have to observe the rules of natural justice,

According to Canon 331, "by virtue of his office he possesses supreme, full, immediate and universal ordinary power, which he is always able to exercise freely".

The other thing I noticed about Pearson's article is that he brands Catholics who disagree with his views as "liberals" or "uber-liberals" as if this was some new form of incipient venereal disease.

And if he thought about it, this would be the label he would also have given to John XXIII and the Second Vatican Council.

The boys in Rome are just greater victims
of the cultic conditioning the Roman end
of the Catholic Church has practiced since
they became a theocracy care of Constantine
and mother.

Just heard on the grapevine that Bill Morris may have been too generous in the financial compensation to the victims of sexual abuse?!
Don't know if there is any truth that, but that could influence the higher powers to act?!
georgeh