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LATEST NEWS: Victoria Police says Catholic Church destroyed evidence of sexual abuse (Main Forum)
by desi 
, Australia, Friday, October 19, 2012, 20:41 (243 days ago)
THE Catholic Church has put its own reputation ahead of the welfare of victims by destroying evidence of sexual abuse and failing to report accusations against the clergy, Victoria Police says.
Victoria's deputy police commissioner Graham Ashton says the church has hindered justice and not reported any case of abuse in more than 50 years, while a legal expert claims cover-ups went to the "highest level".
In damning evidence to a parliamentary inquiry on Friday, Mr Ashton said that of the 620 cases of abuse the church has internally upheld in Victoria since 1956, none had been reported to police.
He said in those 56 years, police had investigated 2110 offences committed by clergy and church workers against 519 victims, of which 370 were committed by Catholic priests or brothers. He said 87 per cent of the victims were boys aged 11 or 12.
But rather than reporting the matters, he accused the church of wrapping a special process around clergy accused of sexual abuse.
http://m.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/vic-child-abuse-inquiry-set-to-open/story-...
lockedLATEST NEWS: Victoria Police says Catholic Church destroyed evidence of sexual abuse
by desi , Australia, Friday, October 19, 2012, 20:50 (243 days ago) @ desi
Victoria's deputy police commissioner Graham Ashton said:
"If a stranger were to enter the grounds of a church and rape a child, that would be reported to police," he told the first day of the inquiry into child abuse by religious and other organisations.
"But if that stranger happened to be a member of the clergy, such as a priest, then that would not be reported.
"A special process is wrapped around him which discourages a victim to complain to police, seeks to ensure the offending clergy member is not only not prosecuted and jailed, but never entered on the sex offenders register.
"The process is designed to put the reputation of the church first and victims second."
Law professor Patrick Parkinson, who has advised most churches on sexual abuse and was asked by the Catholic church to independently review its Towards Healing protocol, repeated Mr Ashton's call to make it a criminal offence for the church not to report accusations of abuse.
Prof Parkinson said he could not be certain that all offenders were no longer in positions of authority or near children and told the inquiry the church needed to declare a full account of where they were now.
"The church cannot recover from this crisis unless there is a clean slate," he told the inquiry.
He said the church's 148-page submission entitled Facing the Truth "has no information whatsoever about what happened to the offenders."
"The church must be asked to provide complete and full information ... no secrets, all files open."
Prof Parkinson says lies, cover-ups and violence were part of the process in which the Salesian order sent offending priests to Rome and Samoa.
"The cover-ups go to the highest level," he said.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/vic-child-abuse-inquiry-set-to-open...
lockedLATEST NEWS: Lateline tonight 10.30
by desi , Australia, Friday, October 19, 2012, 22:36 (242 days ago) @ desi
A report on the Victoria Inquiry
lockedLATEST NEWS: Lateline tonight 10.30 ~ Link
by SunnyDaze , Australia, Saturday, October 20, 2012, 01:23 (242 days ago) @ desi
Victoria Police slams Catholic Church
lockedLATEST NEWS: Victorian Enquiry - The Age
by AnnieJ , Saturday, October 20, 2012, 08:34 (242 days ago) @ desi
Here's the coverage in the Saturday Age re the enquiry, by religion reporter Barney Zwartz. Devastating.
CATHOLIC clergy commit six times as much abuse as those in the rest of the churches combined, ''and that's a conservative figure'', a child protection expert says.
Patrick Parkinson, a Sydney University law professor, told the state inquiry into how the churches handle sex abuse yesterday that the figures for the Catholic Church were strikingly out of proportion.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/catholic-clergy-the-worst-abusers-inquiry-told-201210...
AS GEORGIE Crozier MLC stood yesterday to open public proceedings in the state inquiry into church sex abuse, eyes turned to a dignified man in a grey suit in the third row of the gallery - legal adviser Frank Vincent - who many think should have been the one doing the talking.
The retired Supreme Court judge has already chaired one royal commission, and this inquiry into how the churches handled clergy sex abuse should be his second.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/questions-demand-royal-commission-20121019-27wxd.html
Annie
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''The lies were breathtaking,
by Roy 
, Saturday, October 20, 2012, 09:48 (242 days ago) @ AnnieJ
edited by Roy, Saturday, October 20, 2012, 10:22
Professor Parkinson said: ''The lies were breathtaking, and [former Australian head] Father [Frank] Moloney was absolutely at the centre of all the untruths.''
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/catholic-clergy-the-worst-abusers-inquiry-told-201210...
Speaking under parliamentary privilege, he said the order sent three priests overseas to avoid police questioning, then suppressed his report on their actions.
He told the committee an American child safety expert had called the order ''the most defiant and unrepentant group'' in the church
twelve years of my life trying to expose these guys ...and finally someone gets it!
Two of course ain't enough to get this done ....they are still laughing I'm guessing. 
locked''The lies were breathtaking,
by AsOne , Sunday, October 21, 2012, 09:54 (241 days ago) @ Roy
Try Ian Cobain's new book Cruel Britannia about torture and rendition by our "side".
This statement by the former UK foreign secretary Jack Straw is
being alleged to be not true:
"Unless we all start to believe in conspiracy theories," he said, "and that the officials are lying, that I am lying, that behind this there is some kind of secret state which is in league with some dark forces in the United States… there simply is no truth in the claims that the United Kingdom has been involved in rendition."
lockedLATEST NEWS: Victorian Enquiry - The Age
by AnnieJ , Saturday, October 20, 2012, 17:39 (242 days ago) @ AnnieJ
I'm not in any way downplaying or trying to excuse the terrible things that have happened. But I think that part of the reason for the very large numbers of Catholics involved, in contrast to the other denominations, is that the others weren't involved in providing education to the same extent. Children from other denominations mostly attended government schools. Again, this is a reason, NOT an excuse.
Annie
lockedLATEST NEWS: Patrick Parkinson calls for amnesty
There is an article in today's Weekend Australian ( You would need to be a subscriber to access it fully):
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/amnesty-call-a-jolt-for-abuse-victims/story...
Professor Parkinson said enormous dangers remained within the church while a "culture of cover-up" continued.
"There should be a 12-month amnesty from prosecution for perverting the course of justice . . . in which time the church would be asked to provide complete information on all offenders, alive and dead," he told the inquiry.
"All files open, no secrets.
"There needs to be resignation of everybody responsible for cover-ups . . . some of them are still in positions of highest leadership in the church today."
Broken Rites spokeswoman Chris MacIsaac said the idea of letting conspirators walk was "ridiculous". "The bishops who have covered up and ignored claims should be investigated and held responsible," she said.
Maitland
lockedLATEST NEWS: Patrick Parkinson calls for amnesty
by Roy , Saturday, October 20, 2012, 10:29 (242 days ago) @ Maitland
There is an article in today's Weekend Australian ( You would need to be a subscriber to access it fully):
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/amnesty-call-a-jolt-for-abuse-victims/story...
Professor Parkinson said enormous dangers remained within the church while a "culture of cover-up" continued."There should be a 12-month amnesty from prosecution for perverting the course of justice . . . in which time the church would be asked to provide complete information on all offenders, alive and dead," he told the inquiry.
"All files open, no secrets.
"There needs to be resignation of everybody responsible for cover-ups . . . some of them are still in positions of highest leadership in the church today."
Broken Rites spokeswoman Chris MacIsaac said the idea of letting conspirators walk was "ridiculous". "The bishops who have covered up and ignored claims should be investigated and held responsible," she said.
Maitland
I understand Chris' point ....while Prof Parkinson like myself see that the priority is protecting children .....and an amnesty appears to be the only way to find out where these remain 'known' paeds actually are now.
So many are obviously 'known' to the church and where they actually are at the moment is the priority surely.
lockedLATEST NEWS: Patrick Parkinson calls for amnesty
by Roy , Saturday, October 20, 2012, 10:38 (242 days ago) @ Roy
edited by Roy, Saturday, October 20, 2012, 10:51
I'll say it where some may not wish to but the finding by the police is that 27% of those abused become abusers themselves.
I think that figure explains why this has flourished ...dare I say centred in some seminaries and especially flourished there.
Lots of reason why an amnesty is a good idea.
Some of the people tangled in my own case (and conned also) are very high up in the medical profession and sit on many boards and committees in local governance.
I myself don't see anything the community can gain by dragging these people through the courts (or commission)
To get at those at the top you need to climb over many many innocent (but ignorant) main operatives/blind cradle catholic citizens who usually are effective but got themselves 'used' in stonewalling me.
lockedAmnesties and BMWs
by Roy , Saturday, October 20, 2012, 11:13 (242 days ago) @ Roy
edited by Roy, Saturday, October 20, 2012, 11:29
in 2000 I went to my family solicitor and was told clearly they were prepared to 'sue' for me (little did these solicitors realise at the time)
......and that was the only way forward for me.
I walked out and went straight to the church itself.
This whole thing doesn't need nor is it required to get bogged down in sueing people.
Trouble is very few 'legal people' will see it that way.
I said it at the syd conference at the Uni and I;ll say it again
Half the people interested in 'helping' in this just want to add a shingle to their door and buy a 7 series.
While kids are still at risk as it grinds on for another 10 years. 
I for one do understand how just 2 years of interference in a childs development can turn their whole life completely upside down.
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The Age: "Catholic clergy the worst abusers, inquiry told"
by Brian Coyne , LINDEN, NSW, Saturday, October 20, 2012, 12:10 (242 days ago) @ desi
![[image]](../misc/images2012/Age_AbuseInquiry_600x1211.jpg)
![[image]](http://catholica.com.au/images/CatholicaICO_30x30.jpg)
Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]
lockedThe Age: "Catholic clergy the worst abusers, inquiry told"
If what Patrick Parkinson and Graham Ashton have said to the Parliamentary enquiry is correct, then it is pretty obvious that the title of the Victorian Church's submission "Facing the Truth" is just another one of those public relations stunts that we have become so used to from the Vatican.
The cover up of the cover up continues.
lockedVictoria Inquiry - A (legal?) question.
by desi , Australia, Saturday, October 20, 2012, 13:06 (242 days ago) @ James
THE Catholic Church has put its own reputation ahead of the welfare of victims by destroying evidence of sexual abuse and failing to report accusations against the clergy, Victoria Police says.
Victoria's deputy police commissioner Graham Ashton says the church has hindered justice and not reported any case of abuse in more than 50 years
I understand that the above quote is from the opening statement but will the police commissioner be called to give evidence (under oath?) particularly re the destroying of evidence, failure to report accusations to the police and how the church hindered justice?
lockedVictoria Inquiry - A (legal?) question.
Desi,
I honestly don't know how Parliamentary Enquiries in Victoria (or anywhere else for that matter) work. Like you, I can only go on what I see on television, and it does not seem like a Royal Commission where people are entitled to be represented with the leave of the Commissioner, and then have the right to cross examine witnesses who have made allegations against them.
This is where a Royal Commission would really be fair to the Church as well. Very serious accusations have been made by Professor Parkinson and the Victorian Police. In the normal course, the Church's representatives would have the right to cross examine them on the opinions they have expressed. Likewise, of course, the Church representatives would also be subject to cross examination, again, within the limits laid down by the Commissioner.
Professor Parkinson also suggested an amnesty to allow those in authority in the Church to produce their files, which may or may not reveal incidences of cover up. But a Royal Commission would issue subpoenas for them to be produced in any event, before the Commission even starts.
lockedVictoria Inquiry - A (legal?) question.
by desi , Australia, Saturday, October 20, 2012, 18:15 (242 days ago) @ James
Thank you, James, for your answer, the only info which I can find is here:
http://www.dpc.vic.gov.au/index.php/resources/governance/guidelines-for-appearing-befor...
(I'm no clearer!).
Surely all the parties involved MUST provide proof of any allegations and proof to refute the allegations.
eg The police must show why they believe the Church destroyed evidence and the Church must show that they have all the evidence (documentation) in their possession and provide it.
The more I read and hear, the more I become convinced that a Royal Commission is the correct way to (try to) get to the truth.
lockedVictoria Inquiry - Archbishop of Melbourne's response.
by desi , Australia, Monday, October 22, 2012, 11:17 (240 days ago) @ desi
Mr Ashton's evidence had raised "serious matters which have not been expressed to us previously".
"For the past 16 years the Catholic Church in Victoria has been honest and open in its cooperation with Victoria Police," he said. "We respect the right of victims to decide whether to take their complaints to the police.
Does that mean that prior to 1996 the Catholic Church in Victoria had been dishonest and 'closed' in its cooperation with Victoria Police?
lockedVictoria Inquiry - Monday 22/10/2012
by desi , Australia, Monday, October 22, 2012, 19:56 (240 days ago) @ desi
Des Cahill, a former priest, who is now a professor at RMIT University gave evidence today.
For the past 16 years the Catholic Church in Victoria has handled complaints via two internal systems, called the Melbourne Response and Towards Healing.
Professor Cahill says there are several problems with both complaints systems.
"It's in-house, it's basically in-house design to protect the image and reputation of the Church and to contain financial liability, and secondly it's not transparent and open to the public," he said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-22/child-sexual-abuse-inquiry-continues/4327568
lockedVictoria Inquiry - Monday 22/10/2012 -Age article
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/one-in-20-priests-an-abuser-inquiry-told-20121022-281...
He suggested a new structure involving the Office of the Child Safety Commissioner and a new "eminent Catholics task force", appointed by the Government, to work with Church leadership. Possible candidates included former Supreme Court judge Frank Vincent, La Trobe professor Joseph Camilleri, former Geelong mayer Frank Costa, former deputy Prime Minister Tim Fischer, Mrs Diana Grollo, state chief health officer Rosemary Lester, retired Ballarat bishop Peter Connors, retired Melbourne priest Eric Hodgens and Australian Catholic University professor Gabrielle McMullin.
Professor Cahill said child sex abuse had existed in all ages, cultures and religions, shrouded in secrecy and poorly responded to by religious authorities. He said a church council in 309 AD was concerned about child sex abuse in monasteries.
One in 11 Victorians identified with a religion other than Christianity, up 68 per cent in 10 years, and Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and Jews all had issues to do with sex abuse, especially in other countries.
In Sri Lanka, child sex abuse was rampant in Buddhist monasteries, and more than 100 monks had been charged in the past decade. Child sex abuse had been called "India's time bomb", especially the plight of street children, while many Muslim communities were in denial, he said. Melbourne Jewish groups were making their own submission to the inquiry.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/one-in-20-priests-an-abuser-inquiry-told-20121022-281...
Maitland
lockedVictoria Inquiry - Monday 22/10/2012 -Age article
by desi , Australia, Monday, October 22, 2012, 21:13 (240 days ago) @ Maitland
Professor Cahill said the Church's "culture of caste clericalism" and its pyramid structure rendered it incapable of the systemic reform needed. The organisational culture was "verging on the pathological".
"Bishops are caught between canon law and civil law, and Rome has put a lot of pressure on bishops to make sure canon law and the rights of priests are being observed, but canon law has nothing to say about the rights of child victims," he said.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/one-in-20-priests-an-abuser-inquiry-told-20121022-281...
lockedVictoria Inquiry - Monday 22/10/2012 -Age article
Maitland
Oh Dear this is so frightening, one in 20 is bad enough but one in 15 possibly ten is just shocking, there were so many priests in Lismore when i was growing up i couldn't tell you how many, there was a lot going on I have found out since i started my journey in 2000 it makes my skin crawl at the thought of it. But thank the Lord it is all coming out in the public who would of thought i certainly didn't ever think all this was possible and when I asked for a Royal Commission in the Northern Star in 2003 everyone laught at me, well the Church must be very worried now or are they??
Macbee
lockedVictoria Inquiry - Monday 22/10/2012 -Age article
by Debb , Tuesday, October 23, 2012, 07:40 (239 days ago) @ Maitland
Thank you for the link, Maitland.
Professor Cahill is a breath of fresh air, telling it how it probably is.
I am interested in his reference to monasteries in 309AD, this is a very old and widespread problem! Entrenched through the ages.
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