LinearCan this man Jesus be THE ONE? Sunday Readings 19th B (Y-not question the Sunday Readings)
by Ynot 
, Friday, August 10, 2012, 18:57 (287 days ago)
edited by Ynot, Friday, August 10, 2012, 19:31
![[image]](http://www.catholica.com.au/sunday/images/Y-not110812_an_640x166.gif)
Nineteenth Sunday in Ordinary Time B
August 12, 2012
The Gospel:
Meanwhile the Jews were complaining to each other about him, because he had said, 'I am the bread that has come down from heaven.' They were saying, 'Surely this is Jesus son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know. How can he now say: "I have come down from heaven"?
Jesus said in reply to them, 'Stop complaining to each other. No one can come to me unless drawn by the Father who sent me, and I will raise up that person on the last day. It is written in the prophets: They will all be taught by God; everyone who has listened to the Father, and learnt from him, comes to me. Not that anybody has seen the Father, except him who has his being from God: he has seen the Father. In all truth I tell you, everyone who believes has eternal life.
I am the bread of life.
Your fathers ate manna in the desert and they are dead; but this is the bread which comes down from heaven, so that a person may eat it and not die.
I am the living bread which has come down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will qlive for ever; and the bread that I shall give is my flesh, for the life of the world.' (Jerusalem Bible)
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Last week we tried an experiment, a dramatisation of Ch 6 of the gospel according to John. In a comment it was pointed out that we ought not imagine that these dialogues in John's gospel are records of discussions that actually happened. It is agreed that they were written around 100 CE and are "reflections upon what the late first century experience of Jesus in a particular Greek community said to them about the meaning of Jesus." They are "designed to carry profound theological statements."
Keeping this in mind, in the building of further characters into the dramatic structure the attempt is to place myself in the scene as a man in the crowd, hoping to get a feel for the questions first, and then from that perspective to hear the Jesus words and try to depth their meaning.
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The Argument we had to have continues from previous Sunday: (LINK)
A group of men, about half a dozen of them, had come out of the town and pushed their way through the crowd spread across the path. They were discussing arrangements for the transport back to Nazareth of goods they had bought in Caphernaum. Nazareth was an out of the way place with a reputation. Nothing terrible, but people said the town had a problem with 'attitude'. Now this group stopped to listen for a few minutes and while we were digesting the rabbi's last claim, one of them said: “Hey! We know that rabbi. Isn't that Jesus, son of Joseph? What's he doing here? We know his dad and mum; we know the whole family. How can he say: 'I have come down from heaven?' ”
I saw Megiddo moving towards this group, ready to do in the rabbi perhaps, if people from his own town said he was a fraud, but Jesus was too quick for him. He took a few steps forward, and told his fellow townsmen to their face, “Stop grumbling among yourselves.” At close quarters I was struck by his commanding presence, even when he spoke softly. He seemed to know there was no need to bully people into believing in him. Whether they did or whether they didn't was something beyond his control. Then in the same conversational tone he explained,
“No one can come to believe in me and join up with me unless the Father who sent me draws him to me.”
It seemed like an explanation he had to convince himself of, and I wondered whether he had no choice but to be content with the people who volunteered to be his followers. Would he have wanted sometimes to make his own selection! But then he added,
“The person who comes to me I will raise up on the last day.”
This did not sound like an argument for predestination: the Father calls the ones he chooses, and the son bestows the reward for having been selected. Nothing of that. I felt he was looking forward to some final moment which would make this painful time of uncertain choices and fateful decisions seem worthwhile in the end.
He spoke up again so everybody could hear.
“It is written in the prophets:'They will all be taught by God'. Well, everyone who has listened to the Father, all those who have learned what the Father wants to teach to every human being, they will come to me.”
This was another slam dunk that made the head spin. God teaches all of humankind, and anyone who listens well and learns what god teaches grows in understanding until he sees that the right path is to come to this rabbi, this man Jesus! I was just beginning to wonder whether he was talking about some mystical kind of enlightenment, visions and stuff like that, when he added a qualifier:
“Not that anybody has seen the Father except the one who has his being from god: he has seen the Father.” So we ordinary people don't have to start doing weird exercises in an effort to have a vision of god. That's a relief.
He turned then, and took a few steps back into the middle of his group of disciples. They looked uncomfortable too, I must say, and maybe some of them were having trouble swallowing claims of this sort. Then he faced us again, and he seemed to grow in stature as his friends moved away from in front of him. He spoke in a strong voice that carried out across the water.
“In all truth I tell you, everyone who believes has life that goes on for ever.”
And after a pause: “I am the bread of life.”
A longer pause this time, observing the effect of his words on this group of worldly men, businessmen, craftsmen, traders, farmers, not to mention the idealists and the smattering of poets and mystics looking for a spiritual way. I would have given a penny for Benammi's thoughts as he shuffled his feet, looking quizzically at this man from Nazareth making these extraordinary claims. Perhaps the rabbi took advantage of the fact there were no scholars around that day, because he went on to teach a lesson in their style.
“Your fathers ate manna in the desert, but they are dead. This bread that I am talking about is different. It comes from heaven, so a person can eat it and not die.
“I am this living bread that has come down from heaven.
“Anyone who eats this bread will live for ever!”
It rang out like a proclamation. He laid it down as a challenge, like a declaration of war. Believe this if you can! And then, quietly, the final piece of the puzzle, the mystery squared - or multiplied to the nth degree:
“The bread that I am going to give? It is 'my flesh', my own self. I'm going to give up my self, so to give life to the world.”
Tony Lawless
'TonyL
"A post is a free gift, and it will go where it pleases."'
lockedGuidance for the inner life Sunday Readings 19th B
Tony, thanks again for you imaginative excursion into the lives of ordinary people as they might have wrestled with trying to understand who Jesus was. I too have been thinking about the readings, wondering about their message for the inner life of the soul in today's world - what spiritual guidance was offered.
Whoever chose the readings for this Sunday made an interesting choice in picking this passage from Elijah to go with the passage from John. I suppose that, just as would have happened with the early Jewish writers of the Gospel, someone said 'This text from John, reminds of that story about Elijah. Let's put them together.' And so we are given both the texts to consider. The Gospel writers on the other hand may have run the two stories together, to emphasize what Jesus meant to them. His teaching, his very existence, was for them 'food from heaven'. Here is the Elijah story,
Reading 1 1 Kgs 19:4-8
Elijah went a day's journey into the desert,
until he came to a broom tree and sat beneath it.
He prayed for death saying:
"This is enough, O LORD!
Take my life, for I am no better than my fathers."
He lay down and fell asleep under the broom tree,
but then an angel touched him and ordered him to get up and eat.
Elijah looked and there at his head was a hearth cake
and a jug of water.
After he ate and drank, he lay down again,
but the angel of the LORD came back a second time,
touched him, and ordered,
"Get up and eat, else the journey will be too long for you!"
He got up, ate, and drank;
then strengthened by that food,
he walked forty days and forty nights to the mountain of God, Horeb.
http://www.usccb.org/bible/readings/081212.cfm
For me, the story about Elijah seems to give a key to understanding the passage in John. In preceding verses, we are told that Elijah had to flee for his life because he had slaughtered the prophets of Baal, the prophets of the old agricultural religion. (And this reminds me of how our modern day Catholic prophets suffer retribution as they 'kill' old theological ideas)
My own reflection on the Elijah passage as metaphor, translates 'going into the desert' as part of an inner journey. It is a step not taken easily, a step more forced upon one than chosen. In the desert there is no spiritual food, no encouragement, no support. All has been abandoned because it was killing the spirit, putting it in chains, stifling its God-given life. There is a real prospect of spiritually starving to death, but better death by starvation in freedom, than death in chains!
So all seems lost to the soul forced to go into the desert, but suddenly, unexpectedly, there is nourishment, nourishment enough to continue the journey, in this case, the journey towards union with God. It is a long and arduous journey 'forty days and forty nights', and cannot be completed without that nourishment. Important to note however is that this nourishment can come only from God. If it is not spontaneous and unexpected, then it is suspect as self-generated consolation, so only a temporary reprieve.
And now the Gospel writer is saying that Jesus is spiritual nourishment for his followers, as they set forth into the desert that lay beyond the Judaism of the scribes and Pharisees. He is 'bread from heaven'. But a note of caution is added, when that voice of spiritual wisdom, grounded in experience, says,
'No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him,'
In other words, don't abandon the old religion, the old ways, or spiritual practices if they are still nourishing. Only in desperation, because they seem dead and no longer nourishing, should they be abandoned.
Well, these days that is easy enough to do, as so many people are doing right across Christianity. Mostly, I suspect, it is because they no longer believe and are not really interested in spirituality. But if that leaving gives one food for thought, and a growing interest in questions about God, and the nature of mankind's religious experience, then that is a call from the mystery to come and explore further.
Be reassured though. There will be nourishment for the soul along the way! That there can be nourishment when all seems lost, seems to me the core message of the Gospel reading for today.
Sue
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Guidance for the inner life Sunday Readings 19th B
by CathyT , Adelaide, South Australia, Monday, August 13, 2012, 18:06 (284 days ago) @ Sue
Sue, thank you for drawing our attention to the first reading rather than just concentrating on the Gospel. It's easy to forget that the first reading has been specifically chosen so that it "goes with" the Gospel passage for the day. Sometimes, it's hard to see the connection, and I've also come across criticism of this custom of linking the first reading to the Gospel, on the basis that we should appreciate the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) on their own merits, and not just see them in connection with the Jesus story, particularly if we take the view that the former is nothing more than a precursor of the latter! But at its best, I think this custom emphasises the continuity between ancient Judaism and Christianity, as well as each text enriching and throwing light on the other. You have certainly helped this to happen, Sue, with your reflection on the readings this week.
I also really like your interpretation of the line,
"No-one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him". This text can obviously give rise to a sense of elitism, of being the "chosen people," or maybe on the other hand people could use it as an excuse to avoid changing their ways, because they say they're NOT among the chosen! But your interpretation - that we be open to the prompting of the Spirit, to stay where we are, or to venture out into the unknown, whichever way promises spiritual nourishment - that makes perfect sense to me.
And there's no doubt this series of reflections on John 6,in the "Y-not question..." thread, is providing plenty of spiritual nourishment!
Cathy Taggart
I splash in my poetry puddle
and try to keep God amused. - James Broughton
lockedFrom the sublime to the down-to-earth!
by CathyT , Adelaide, South Australia, Saturday, August 11, 2012, 10:35 (286 days ago) @ Ynot
edited by CathyT, Saturday, August 11, 2012, 19:24
Thank you Tony for this reflection, and thank you especially for presenting it in such a dramatic and vivid way. The Gospel of John particularly lends itself to this sort of thing, I think. I read somewhere that this Gospel was probably written in Ephesus, where there was a famous theatre, and this may have influenced the style of writing used by its author. I don't know how widely held this view is among scholars, but I certainly found it helpful: I found that, when viewed in this light, a Gospel which had always seemed so obscure and inaccessible not only became more accessible, but also much more attractive.
Turning to this week's Gospel: this speech attributed to Jesus can seem very "theological", very much NOT like something anyone would say in a real-life context. So I particularly liked the way, Tony, that you went through each line or verse and then followed it by the reaction of your "hero" or other people in the crowd. That certainly helped to bring out the meaning of it, or should I say a meaning! I thought it was particularly nifty the way you accounted for the bit about "isn't this the man we all know, and whose family we know?" This bit didn't seem to exactly fit in with the theme of this passage, nor did it seem to fit into a scene that was set in Capernaum, not Nazareth!
So thank you again, Tony, for taking us from the sublime, not to the ridiculous, but at least to an earthy and human level. Obviously, apart from the format, you make some good points in your reflection, but I'll have to mull over them a bit more. This certainly is a Gospel passage that is very rich in meaning as well as in symbol.
Cathy Taggart
I splash in my poetry puddle
and try to keep God amused. - James Broughton
lockedAnother fictional treatment
by Ynot , Sunday, August 12, 2012, 10:08 (285 days ago) @ Ynot
Sue and Cathy, thank you both for these additional insights. Journeyman has sent me an email with reference to today's liturgy on the Claretian website at http://www.bibleclaret.org/liturgy/CycleB/19_OT.htm
This appears to be a very vital presentation of material for Sunday liturgies.
Joe especially said we should look at the dramatisation of the gospel under the title A Certain Jesus. The passage for John 6 is here: http://www.bibleclaret.org/liturgy/ACJ/CycleB/Ch_58.htm This is a very hard-hitting portrayal of the encounter between the gospel message/ideal and contemporary society.
Words I wish I'd written:
James: Cowards! They're all a bunch of cowards...!
Jesus: Of course, James. We all feel scared at the moment of truth. No one likes to risk his life. But one must do it. We've got to share our bread, but we've also got to share our body and blood too. Many of us will break our bodies like we're breaking bread. A number of us will shed blood like we're spilling wine... When we've offered our lives for our country, then we'll be worthy of the Kingdom of God.
Something personal: I will be having bypass surgery on Tuesday, so won't be around the forum for a week or two. I have arranged with Cathy to post the next two installments of "The Argument we had to have". A thought on Tuesday morning would be very welcome.
C U
tony
'TonyL
"A post is a free gift, and it will go where it pleases."'
lockedGo well, Tony
by AnnieJ , Sunday, August 12, 2012, 10:26 (285 days ago) @ Ynot
I hope all goes well with you on Tuesday, Tony, and that you will soon be able to post again. Thank you for the wonderful insights into the Sunday readings you give us each week - lots of food for the journey. 
Annie
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Tony, I am with you on Tuesday having had a triple bypass in 2001. It is a memorable event and I have great admiration to the surgeon and team. I was out of hospital in 6 days.
Francis
My purpose is to remember the love that created me in God one with my brothers and sisters and with all life. My function is to extend that love and unity each moment to all.
lockedBypass
Francis
When i saw a Heart Surgeon on Tv lift a Heart out of a mans body work on it and put it back i knew then and there that we are a brillian race of people. Gods speed Tony you will up and around before you know it.
Macbee
lockedThat's a miracle too
by Englishwoman , Sunday, August 12, 2012, 16:36 (285 days ago) @ Ynot
By-pass surgery - prayers of course
Mary
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That's a miracle too
by Brian Coyne 
, LINDEN, NSW, Sunday, August 12, 2012, 17:34 (285 days ago) @ Englishwoman
Best wishes from Milly and myself also, Tony. We'll be thinking of you. Thanks so much for the way in which you have really enlivened these weekend commentaries.
![[image]](http://catholica.com.au/images/CatholicaICO_30x30.jpg)
Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]
lockedAnother fictional treatment
Thoughts and prayers for Tuesday
Maitland
lockedAnother fictional treatment
by Jerome , Sunday, August 12, 2012, 23:24 (285 days ago) @ Ynot
Wishing you well Tony and hoping to see you back in the forum pages soon.
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Another fictional treatment
by desi , Australia, Sunday, August 12, 2012, 23:51 (285 days ago) @ Ynot
My thoughts are with you Tony.
lockedAnother fictional treatment
I feel very frustrated by the carry-on over the new Mass translation when there are such real problems in the world that need the energy and time that has been put into arguments over words and gestures. I think of the Gospel message where Jesus says if your brother has something against you, leave your gift at the altar and go and be reconciled...Perhaps the idea that we should have a moratorium on Mass until we have worked out these problems of injustice/poverty/climate change etc is a bit too radical but....?
I wrote these words back in October last year and thought that maybe I was being a bit dramatic but I see I’m definitely not the first person to have had these thoughts and that it actually has been the practice at some times and places….
The theme of Eucharist-justice is a problem as old as Christianity. Paul affirms that wherever a glaring inequality exists, then there can be no celebration of the Eucharist, but an act condemned by the Lord. His denunciation in this sense is strong (1 Cor 11:17-34). During the first centuries of Christianity, there was an evangelical consciousness to capture the relationship between the Eucharist and justice. Only those who shared their wealth with their brothers and sisters celebrated the Eucharist and broke Bread. Furthermore: It was the Bishop's obligation to watch out for those who gave offerings during the mass. If these were oppressors of the poor, then the latter were prohibited from receiving anything from them. (Apost. Const. II, 17, 1-5 and III, 8 and IV, 5-9). This was so strictly enforced that the "Didascalia" of the Third Century provides that if there is no other means to feed the poor but to receive money from the rich who commit injustice, then the community might as well die of hunger, rather than receive help from the oppressors (Didasc IV, 8, 2). Provisions of this type proliferate in the writings of the Holy Fathers and Churches from various places through the centuries. Another example of how radical this was is shown by the Bishop of Milan, Saint Ambrose, who, having been informed of the massacre of thousands of persons, for which Emperor Theodosius was responsible, not only criticized the latter, but also threatened him with a letter that “the Bishop will not offer the Sacrifice of the Mass in his presence” (Epistle L1, 13). At the start of the 9th Century, the official Church got rid of this practice and concentrated solely on the theme of Christ’s real presence in the bread and how such a sublime mystery could be explained and understood. Thus, the other dimension of the Eucharist was lost.
Before the world of the internet, etc we could be unaware of what was happening beyond our local area. If we did hear of famines and earthquakes, etc they were well over by the time we got the news, but today we have no excuse for being unaware of the injustices/natural disasters in our world and while they still exist should we be celebrating Eucharist????? Or perhaps it can be justified if we are praying for the strength to continue to fight these inequalities in our own personal lives and in the wider world.
Thank you for this link Tony. I will be thinking of you tomorrow that all will go well with your surgery.
lockedCan this man Jesus be THE ONE? Sunday Readings 19th B
by Jerome , Sunday, August 12, 2012, 23:22 (285 days ago) @ Ynot
Thank you Tony.
When contemplating this reading I was stuck on “the flesh”.
I note that your wonderful reflection ends with something similar.
Thank you Sue & Cathy for your reflections that also help me to clarify my own thoughts.
So here are some thoughts on this gospel reading:
Firstly I refer to the discussion in the forum regarding last Sunday’s readings.
Brian responded to Tony’s emphasis on the word ‘integrity’.
The quest is for "personal integrity" as opposed to some kind of "social conformism" — trying to be some "goody two shoes" in the hope of some eternal reward for our obedience or docility.
To live as a "social conformist" is the easy option.
To live with "personal integrity" is the pathway to sainthood!
I sense that this Sunday’s reading is very much about that ‘integrity’.
The people listening to Jesus are focused on the here and now of their lives.
They know who Jesus is.
They are suspicious and sceptic about his words on eternal life.
As Brian often says we are not involved ‘in some game of sucking up to God through obedience and docility.’
It’s not about doing deals with God.
Our integrity, Jesus tells us, is about living our lives at all times in a relationship of love with our creator; with creation.
That is an ongoing journey, not a package of deals.
Through Jesus, the Bread of Life, we are part of the risen Christ.
I imagine that ‘the flesh’ is not so much about the physical body, but more, much more about the inner self, the real substance, about our spiritual relationship with God.
I think of this fleshy relationship as actually meaning a very closely attuned spiritual relationship – that we are on the same wavelength.
We are in communion, in relationship as a faith community, with the risen Christ, fed spiritually by the Eucharist.
It is the spiritual food that nourishes and defines our whole lives, our integrity, our attitudes, our every thought, word and action.
I believe that when we are tuned in to that message of Christ and act accordingly we are taken out of ourselves into community and somehow become part of eternal life.
In a society that is focused so very much on winners and losers, on the here and now, on the wants rather than needs, such integrity is continually tested, belittled, mocked.
Then again we do deserve to be tested when we say the above and yet we are seen to behave so contrary to that claimed integrity.
Just reflect on the incredible suffering caused by our materialism, our consumption and, let’s be really honest, our role in the economic oppression of the rest of the world.
The early Christians apparently did have that integrity.
They were recognised for the way they behaved towards others with empathy and compassion.
And that is the reason we too do our best to avoid having grudges against others; to avoid losing our temper and shouting at people or call people names; to avoid acting spitefully and getting our own back.
We do our best to be friendly, approachable, kind, forgiving, especially to strangers and outsiders.
Our lives as Christians are not about doing deals with God; are not about how many times we have attended Sunday Mass; are not about how many times we have prayed the rosary this week.
Our every thought, word and action is about being an integral part of the body of Christ, of life eternal.
So I suppose it is a matter of hearing, being really tuned in to the teachings of Jesus, rather than being confused and overwhelmed by the thunderous static that so persistently distracts us from our eternal focus.
lockedCan this man Jesus be THE ONE? Sunday Readings 19th B
by georgeh , Monday, August 13, 2012, 12:07 (284 days ago) @ Ynot
Thanks for your weekly inputs Tony and others.
It goes a long way of nourishing each other.
Peace and good health Tony,I pray.
georgeh
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Can this man Jesus be THE ONE? Sunday Readings 19th B
by BarryS , 'Uralla, NSW', Monday, August 13, 2012, 16:01 (284 days ago) @ Ynot
Tony, my prayers are with you tomorrow "& in the weeks to come that you will return to full health again
May God go with you,
BarryS
I live for those that love me
For those that know I am true
For the heaven that smiles above me
& awaits my coming too
For the cause that needs assistance
For the wrong that needs resistance
For the future in the distance
& the good that I can do.
lockedJesus is the bread from heaven - but what does this mean ?Bishop Thomas Gumbleton's homily
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