Leveson Inquiry: An important address by the lawyer on behalf of victims... (Main Forum)
I have just been listening to the closing submissions given to the Leveson Inquiry into the "culture, practice and ethics of the press" in Britain by, Mr David Sherborne, counsel for about 50 victims, given on Tuesday, 24th July. Running for around 106 minutes this is not only a powerful piece of argument and superbly delivered, but a valuable commentary also on the parallel scandals that the Religious Estate faces in the world at the moment into the sexual abuse scandal. Some of the arguments that David Sherborne presents might be almost directly taken up and applied in various court cases around the world and other government inquiries into the behaviour of the Church.
One constant theme in Sherborne's address has been the failure of self-regulation of the press. At one point in his address he goes back and chronicles various enquiries over a period of more than 60 years and how self-regulation has been a failure to the point where the entire phone hacking scandal and the wholesale charging of senior members of the press in Britain — that has been a separate major news story today [See, for example, www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jul/24/coulson-rebekah-brooks-phone-hacking] — is perhaps the single biggest failure in self-regulation that has yet been seen. Readers of Catholica would be aware that a contention in the affairs of the Church is this very similar argument the Church makes that it has its own canon law and investigation/disciplinary procedures. (Look to the example of the sort of discipline handed to Fr Marcial Maciel Degollado for what "self-regulation" often gives.) In a newspaper article in The Age, referred to yesterday on the Forum, a senior policeman was lamenting the lack of cooperation from the Church.
Senior police also weighed into the debate, with Deputy Commissioner Graham Ashton telling 3AW's Neil Mitchell that despite repeated requests from police, the church was not alerting authorities about clergy sex abuse cases, instead preferring to deal with the cases internally.
"I can't think of a single referral we've had from the Catholic Church in the last couple of years I've been around," Mr Ashton said.
"I've been up there [to the Melbourne Archdiocese] myself and spoken to them about it but they have their own processes in place that they regard as being robust … But our point is we're the ones that make the decision around whether things are criminal or not," he said.
"I'm frustrated by the whole issue, it's one that we've been trying to get addressed for some time with the church."
Source: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/inquiry-looms-as-more-suicides-linked-to-sexual-abuse...
I think another common theme we find between the present scrutinies these two powerful institutions, the church and the press, are under is this emergence of what I dub "bully boy" behaviours. Rupert Murdoch has elevated it almost to a high art form as a way of literally building a fortune: this endeavour to hire what are effectively thugs and bully boys who are utterly cynical individuals and who are masters at provoking the most base instincts in the yobbo elements of a population as a means of providing not news but simply entertainment, titillation, mock outrage and indignation as a vehicle for generating ratings and, ultimately through that, attracting advertising dollars. It's almost as crude as going to a zoo with the intention of deliberately trying to provoke the primates and other wild beasts with sharpened sticks to get them to react as this might provide some entertainment to a crowd. The RSPCA would be outraged if any person actually did that. But in much of the media today, not only in Britain but other parts of the world, that is what is effectively served up as news and information a lot of the time these days. It has nothing whatsoever to do with making society more informed or educated, or encouraging higher standards and thinking in public behaviour. It is purely entertainment and designed to distract and generate an emotional reaction from the masses ultimately in the interests of the profits and/or the power of the editors and the media proprietors. This "disease" is spreading today from tabloid print media to commercial and pay television (and, dare I say it, via some of Rupert's students into politics).
In Catholicism, I would argue, there has been the emergence in various places around the world a similar encouragement of (or is it a lack of control on) a "bully boy" element within the Church and in the episcopal ranks. The recently retired Australian judge, Chris Geraghty, drew attention to this recently in his biography "Dancing with the Devil". These people parade as know alls and often bully their way through life and over the lives of others in their quest for power and influence.
I don't pretend to know the answers to all of this. I don't think anyone does. That is why this Leveson Inquiry is being conducted. I don't entirely agree with David Sherborne that statutory regulation is the answer. Bureaucratic structures often bring with them worse failings than what they are supposed to correct. Society simply cannot afford to have a policeman or judge standing on every street corner, or in every lounge room (or confessional box/sacristy/presbytery), to keep law and order in any society. If we go down that route we end up with a police state — and that's what George Orwell was warning us so long ago in his novels "Animal Farm" and "1984".
Ultimately I think the best answer to this sort of thing is, perhaps surprisingly, a very "Catholic" one. It is long term though — something that can only be implemented over generations, not in minutes or even years or decades — it is, through the education system, lifting the entire "moral tone" of a society and a culture. It is "self-regulation" in a sense but the self-regulation of each individual citizen in their moral and ethical behaviour — not the self-regulation of vested interest groups whether they be newspaper editors and publishers, trade union officials, bankers, or bishops and curial officials. This is far from the culture of Catholicism that seems to have been favoured in recent decades by JPII and BXVI which, ironically and paradoxically, seems to share more in common with the totalitarian, big brother States of Communism and Nazism which were supposed to be the great negatively formative experiences in the lives of JPII and BXVI.
To listen to David Sherbourne's address to the inquiry go to www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/hearings and scroll down to "Recent Hearings" and select the morning session for Tuesday, 24th July. As I have suggested already it is simply worth listening to for an intelligent address — and at points Sherborne is interrupted by Lord Leveson and there are fascinating exchanges between two intelligent minds obviously trying to grapple with some of the imponderables such as the ones I've outlined above. More than that though what Sherborne argues in various places might also be valuable for those putting submissions to various inquiries around the world into clerical abuse and the various cultural challenges being experienced by the Catholic Church.
![[image]](../misc/images2012/Leveson_Sherborne_470x286.jpg)
David Sherborne, Counsel for the Core Victims of Phone Hacking in the UK,
in his closing address to the Leveson Inquiry, 24 July 2012.
The Guardian Newspaper has a condensed report on his address HERE.
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Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]
Leveson Inquiry - and why we need a Royal Commission
Brian,
Thanks for this reference to Sherbourne's address. There were a number of similarities that struck me about it too.
It is no exaggeration to say that the evidence which was heard from the selection of victims who came here to recount their personal and often very painful experiences at the hands of the press was truly chilling.
Now, you can substitute "Church" here for " press", and the "evidence" before the enquiry with "the ABC Four Corners program, the Foster book", and many other examples, and you could make the same statement without being in the slightest bit embarrassed that it might be an exaggeration.
One of the things I have constantly stated in this forum was that the 1996 Towards Healing protocol making it obligatory to report child sex abuse by priests to the police or relevant authorities, was a big step forward, and all credit should be given to Bishop Geoffrey Robinson and the Australian bishops for going to Cardinal Ratzinger and getting an exemption from the secrecy provisions of Crimen Sollicitationis to allow such reporting. The real scandal is that Ratzinger, neither as head of the CDF or as Pope applied that to the rest of the Church until 2010, when he finally gave in to world pressure. That is a familiar story and I won't repeat the damning evidence against him.
But what I never knew, and I guess no one except the Church knew, was the extend to which the Church authorities actually complied with the reporting provisions of the Towards Healing protocol. This is where the statement by Deputy Commissioner Ashton is so relevant to the demands that there by a Royal Commission.
"...that despite repeated requests from police, the church was not alerting authorities about clergy sex abuse cases, instead preferring to deal with the cases internally."
Elsewhere in this forum, there is a discussion about Archbishop Hart's statement that victms were reluctant to go to the police. Well, we know that very often victims of all kinds of sexual assaults are unwilling to go to the police because inevitably that means reliving the experience in the police station first and then later in court. But what we don't know is how much pressure has been put on them not to go to the police. And only a Royal Commission can determine that.
The probem for the Church here is that it has appalling form when it comes to this sort of pressure. First, Crimen Sollicitationis required the victims to swear to secrecy, and required anyone else involved in the investigation to not go to the police under pain of excommunication - automatic, and only to be lifted by the Pope personally. Then in 2001, it was reinforced, and repeated in the form of "pontifical secrecy". Now, while Australia was given an exemption in 1966 it is pretty obvious that the culture of cover up was still there because it was still being dictated from on top. Culture in a dictatorial hierarchy comes from the top.
Commissioner Ashton must be speaking from experience. It is essential that these allegations be properly tested with an independent judicial officer. Parliamentary enquiries are fine, but they are not independent. They are run by political parties and are subject to lobbying by interested parties, including the Church.
The other matter that needs to be looked at urgently is that there are two aspects clergy sexual abuse. One is the criminal side. Now, let's assume that Archbishop Hart is right and that most victims don't want to go to the police and want it dealt with "internally". What does that mean? Well, the Church, like any private organization has a right to make its own disciplinary rules for its priests. When a victim goes to the Church, he or she may well be looking for the Church to impose some disciplinary measure, whether defrocking or whatever. But in most cases, they have suffered serious tortious damage at the hands of the clergy. They are entitled to compensation as a matter of law.
And there's the rub. The priest is either dead or has no assets. The bishop is either dead or has no assets. In such circumstances, the victim is completely at the mercy of the Church because of the Ellis defence. Any decent lawyer will tell them that they can't take it to court.
I have said many times before,that anyone with the slightest experience of legal practice, knows that in any negotiation or mediation to settle a compensation claim, the strength or weakness of the claim is critical to the ultimate outcome. In other words, everyone, including a mediator, is looking ahead to what an outcome might be in court. And in the case of the Catholic Church, in many cases, where it wants to rely on the shabby, James Hardie type, Ellis defence, there is no possible outcome for the victim. And many people are now starting to come forward and show that what they were offered was "go away money". And in the case of the Melbourne response, it is even worse, because of the $50,000 limit ($75,000) put on compensation payouts by the "independent" Commissioner and his team. How can they be "independent", when they can't award more than the limit the Church puts on them?
Now, getting back to your comments on the Leveson enquiry and freedom of the press. Yes, one has to be careful about some type of watchdog on press freedom for reasons you mention. But in many ways, there are already some independent judicial controls on the press by defamation laws. Giving affected persons the right to sue where there has been an unjustifiable violaton of their privacy may be one way to solve the "big brother" problem.
But these concerns do not apply to the Church and clerical sex abuse. If a Royal Commission shows that pressure had been put on victims not to go to the police, then the public airing of this should be enough to bring it to an end, even if there was no criminal conduct involved. The Church should be shamed into stopping it.
Second, if the Ellis defence is outlawed then those victims who for good reason don't want to go to the police, can at least be satisfied that they are not at a significant disadvantage in negotiating for compensation with the Churchn - an organization, which, strictly speaking, does not exist when it is convenient to say that, to protect its coffers.
Third, one of the problems that all disciplinary bodies have in dealing with members is the fact that the recalcitrant members are dealt with by their peers. Now, I think that it is appropriate that their peers be part of the disciplinary tribunal - after all, doctors do have a better idea about what is medical malpractice. But the way that secular society has dealt with the problem of justice being seen to be done is to make sure that there is some non professional presence on the tribunal.
The Church would, of course, scream interference in religious liberty. But priests do have a peculiar problem which does not exist with other professions. There are many more doctors, lawyers, dentists, and architects than there are priests who do form a small exclusive club. The problem is much more acute for them. The laity are supposed to be a significant part of the "people of God". Many of them have legal, psychological and medical qualifications.
Why could not they also be part of such a tribunal? The longer the Church hierarchy resists giving them a proper place in deciding disciplinary matters over priests - and I am not just talking about giving legal or other advice, but the right to be part of the decision making team - the more likely there is going to be pressure, once again, from secular society to interfere.
There has to be a Royal Commission to look into all these things.
Leveson Inquiry - and why we need a Royal Commission
The State of Victoria is too broke to have a Royal Commission apparently.
a pretty good question is WHERE IS ASHTON?
seems to have disappeared after that interview.
I think he stepped over the line and got smacked.
Not a word from him since ...and I tried to contact him and was told to piss off.
situation normal.
I wished you'd go and bore this Inquiry with your findings James ....hope you have at least written to the Inquiry .....no one to convince here
But plenty to convince over at the parliament 
Leveson Inquiry - and why we need a Royal Commission
I think you misunderstand what I have been doing, Roy. I have not made "findings", other than what is available on documents that anyone can find on the internet. I have no other sources.
There is no need for a Royal Commission to prove that the current Pope, both as Pope and as head of the CDF was deeply involved in the cover up of clergy sex abuse, and supported a policy contained in Canon Law that prevented Catholic Church authorities from reporting clergy sexual abuse to the authorities. It is all there in black and white, in documents, some of which bear the signature of "Josef Ratzinger".
As I said earlier, what I have no evidence about is whether or not, after 1996, when Australia got an exemption from "the secret of the Holy Office", to allow reporting, they actually did so. That is what a Royal Commission should be about. And it also should be about the Church and compensation.
I don't believe that a Parliamentary enquiry is the best way to do that.
2002 law about admitting liability
wrong word sorry ....'observations' would have been a better choice
I wondered if you knew about this liability law of 2002
a solicitor was reading this and asked me pointedly was the date of 2000 correct on this.
then mumbled on about this being an admission of guilt if written before 2002
![[image]](http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af184/Michael_Scull/Rally2011/SalesianResponseAlsoSm.jpg)
Not my solicitor and i have no access to him.
I have no clue what the solicitor was on about.
2002 law about admitting liability
Roy,
Laws differ from State to State, so I don't know what law he was referring to. But, yes, I am aware of a law in NSW in 2002 that says that apologising for something is not to be construed as an admission of liability. It is a sensible law.
CIVIL LIABILITY ACT 2002 - SECT 69
Effect of apology on liability
69 Effect of apology on liability
(1) An apology made by or on behalf of a person in connection with any matter alleged to have been caused by the person:
(a) does not constitute an express or implied admission of fault or liability by the person in connection with that matter, and
(b) is not relevant to the determination of fault or liability in connection with that matter.
(2) Evidence of an apology made by or on behalf of a person in connection with any matter alleged to have been caused by the person is not admissible in any civil proceedings as evidence of the fault or liability of the person in connection with that matter.
The reason for it is, for example, you have a car accident and someone is hurt. It isn't your fault but you say, "I'm really very sorry"...that, in the past, could be taken as an admission of guilt.
Roy, no lawyer who has any common sense is going to give you any legal advice in a public forum, so I'm not going to comment on what the provincial wrote to you. There is little point in putting these things up on the forum.
2002 law about admitting liability
Roy, no lawyer who has any common sense is going to give you any legal advice in a public forum, so I'm not going to comment on what the provincial wrote to you. There is little point in putting these things up on the forum.
I understand that but have wanted to put this to bed for ages ...and I thank you.
I haven't got a solicitor nor ever had one in this.
very simple what I wanted ...a paedophile removed from teaching children ....nothing more and certainly nothing less.
the rest is their construct not mine! All this bullshit happened because of them hiding Ayers in Samoa....it could have been very simple. I never ever asked the Salesians for anything else than to move the paedophile away from these kids.
that is the whole point ....that is all I ever asked for 
some may not realise but I am only about criminal prosecution of these guys ....prosecution is the only thing that will bring any satisfaction to victims ....compensation is just further degrading.
Compensation that is paid against a paedophile activities while not actually even talking to him about his activities nor stopping him I find a little distasteful.
...and should be a crime in itself.
pretty damn close to bribery and concealing a crime yourself as a victim.
Something I refuse to do ...and apparently that is a crime too.
















