What do people think of the Leveson Inquiry ? (Main Forum)
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I think Lord Justice Leveson is doing a great job.
But it is all a bit top-down and I have not heard much from the actual practitioners of journalism.
I sent this letter to The Guardian, which initiated the inquiry by exposing phone hacking, and now has a live, minute by minute coverage.
To The Guardian:
In Australia, where Rupert Murdoch controls 70 per cent of our media, some of us are watching the Leveson Inquiry with great attention.
Mr Murdoch began as a minority rebel against the newspaper Establishment in Australia and was much admired by people like me who worked for him as he founded The Australian and gradually wore down his opponents with great daring.
Like Alexander the Great, however, as his opponents fell and his power grew he disillusioned his loyal followers by doing things like destroying the Labor Government of Gough Whitlam, discouraging or eliminating trade unionism and following his own commercial interests above all else.
At the moment our Gillard Government is in peril from News Corp’s evangelism and scandal-monging.
I have the advantage of having worked, admiringly for Murdoch in Australia, and also for the ABC, which he despises almost as much as he does the BBC, and for the Daily Mirror in London which despised him.In both Australia and the UK I watched politicians grovel to him. The Transit of Rupert ended up with him actually becoming The Sun.
My appraisal is enhanced by the fact that for ten years I was the chairman of the Judiciary Committee which administered the Code of Ethics for the Australian Journalists Association in New South Wales. As we had 100 per cent trade union membership it was possible to discipline members in a mutual way, and to resist attempts by employers to command un ethical assignments.
Refusal to do an assignment was grounds for instant dismissal so I decided to ‘command’ journalists individual journalists not to obey the boss on a grubby job. It worked a treat.
I was very happy to be a mini-Leveson, and the committee was much more effective than our Press Council, or government authorities.
This kind of mutuality was, however, doomed. Compulsory trade unionism became illegal.
In Wapping as we all know Murdoch smashed the printers’ union, then broke the power of journalistic trade unionism.
Now at the Inquiry we seem not to be relying upon the innate decency of competitive practitioners of the Craft of Journalism, but instead on hopes of some kind of Road to Damascus conversion of employers, some kind of statutory authority with uncertain stars to follow, and politicians of selective memory.
The answer is to restore the power of journalists to reject grubby practices.
Cliff Baxter
Cliffy.baxter@gmail.com
Baxter has been a journalist since 1953.
Some thoughts in response...
Cliff,
I'm becoming drowned in all the information available to us at the moment. Last night we watched "East to West" on SBS — unmissable although I missed the first three episodes. Last night's episode on the religions of the East hugely educative. Then I caught up on Leveson and, at your suggestion, tuned into the House of Commons. It is simply unbelieveable that we can watch all of this stuff live and directly — not filtered by newspapers, television stations or journalists — and for virtually no cost. (Remember the days when international telephone calls of this sort of length cost a week's salary?) We can actually watch it ourselves and form our own assessments ....... just provided we have the time in each day to be able to do it. Even if we do not have the time each day though the very fact that, at a moment's notice we can tune in and watch what is going on in the House of Commons or an Inquiry like Leveson's is an amazing development and, I think, hugely important for democracy in the world.
Quite apart from watching the House of Commons, or the Leveson Inquiry, you could also follow the live blog in the Guardian which was effectively giving a running commentary of what was going on at Leveson and in the House of Commons at the same time. (The debate last night in the House was directly linked to the subject matter of the Leveson Inquiry.)
Will the Murdochs be restrained by the Leveson Inquiry? Will journalism generally be forced to adopt higher moral standards? I think those questions are still to be answered. The irony is that Murdoch is more popular than ever with the big end of town — the share market assessment of Murdoch has not been affected even in a minor way by all the negative publicity around the world. Just in the last half hour I've read Paul Barry's lengthy feature background story on Rebekah Brooks — [LINK] — she wasn't born with a silver spoon in her mouth but seemingly "charmed her way to the top" not only of Murdoch's Empire but British society in a very short order of time. Those who encouraged her in her rise might yet regret it. The reality is that money still buys enormous power in the world and Rebekah Brooks demonstrates that even without being "born into money" it is possible in a relatively short order of time for a person of even fairly humble origins to gain access to the corridors of power.
It's the timeless problem: how does a society limit the power both of those who do have the resources to buy power; and those who are keen to acquire it without money? Watching "East to West" last night and the invasions of the Mongols and others from the East who subjugated the Byzantine world and then the Moslem world in the first half of the Second Millennium illustrates how "timeless" the challenge is — and also how it seems universal to all human cultures.
The question you ask could lead to a huge conversation — and on a massive canvas. Can you limit power by statute and parliamentary legislation, police forces and courts of law? To some extent yes. But the clever and the rich will always find ways around statutes, laws and police forces. (Just go read Paul Barry's article for a brief description of how News Corporation bought off one of the most respected police forces in the entire world.)
I think the greater protection a society needs comes from the general culture that is encouraged in a society by the education system. This is why the teaching of ethics and morals is so important. As I have written before, a society simply cannot afford to employ a policeman on every corner to control an entire population, let alone employing one at the front gate of every home. A society has to be self-policing in their behaviours. The rich need to be inculcated with a sense of noblesse oblige — a sense of indebtedness to society for their good fortune and the privileged position they occupy very often not through any skills or intelligence they possess but simply through lady luck and good fortune.
I think your suggestion that journalists themselves need to control the ethics is sort of half-way to what I am suggesting above. Where I disagree with you is that trade unions can be as tyranical, as corrupt, and as power-crazed as the most powerful capitalists as we are seeing in the present union scandals in Australia. I think it has to be more deeply embedded in a society than simply some "stand-off" between vested interests.
I have long pondered this question as to why Western Civilisation became as materially successful and as dominant as it did. The television series I tried to mount back in the early 1980s, The 1984 Project, was essentially trying to answer that question and give a "state of the globe" report to the entire "civilization" endeavour at the time of the "coming of age" of George Orwell's book "1984". In the end my series didn't make it into production but the BBC produced a series "The Triumph of the West" written and presented by Professor John Roberts which was examining similar questions.
More recently there have been this spate of books and television series examining the same territory again — and some asking if "the West is history" and we're in the process of "handing on the civilising baton" to the Chinese or the Indians? Niall Ferguson recently produced a series which we discussed on Catholica where he outlined what he called the "six killer apps" that made Western Civilisation successful.
At the end of all the discussion I think it does, or did, largely come back to the education system and instilling in a sufficiently large "critical mass" of the citizenry a certain ethos and way of looking at the world — and a certain standard in moral behaviour. The noblesse oblige, which you first put me onto, was a huge part of that "culture". Are the rich in society losing it? Is that is what is being demonstrated via the Leveson Inquiry? How does a society restore it? By legislation and statute? Or is the only really effective way a very long term way through the education system and the cultural climate that it can only slowly build over decades, generations or centuries?
I sense there is much more to discuss under this topic you have opened up.
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Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]
Some thoughts in response...
This is why the teaching of ethics and morals is so important. As I have written before, a society simply cannot afford to employ a policeman on every corner to control an entire population, let alone employing one at the front gate of every home. A society has to be self-policing in their behaviours.
Brian,
I agree entirely with these thoughts of yours. Law is a blunt instrument, a baseball bat, and sometimes it actually makes the situation worse. A very good example is how neighbourhood disputes used to be dealt with before they invented community justice centres.
If your neighbour was throwing the dog shit that your Fido left on their front lawn, into your swimming pool, the only thing you could do was to sue him for trespass, and the only thing he could do was to get a mandatory injunction against you to stop your dog doing his business on his carefully manicured lawn. The problem with this baseball bat approach to the dispute was that there was only ever going to be a winner and a loser. The winner felt vindicated, and the loser planned the next revenge. And so on went the spiral.
That doesn't mean that law doesn't have its place. If mediation over the dog shit in the swimming pool doesn't resolve the matter, the baseball bats have to come out.
If you go to Buenos Aires, you will see that no one drives within the traffic lanes. I mean no one. Part of that is because there are no cameras to enforce it, but it is also part of a "culture". And in many countries in the world, if you get pulled over by the police, you never pay a fine because the policeman's bribe is always at least half as much as the fine.
Respect for the law is very important to the whole idea of a rule of law. But it has to earn that respect as well. If people generally believe that you can buy a result in court, then it won't have that respect. That is why an independent and honest judiciary is also so important. We don't always have it here, but at least there are processes to root out those people. That only comes from a culture. It is a very fragile thing, and, as we have seen from history, it is so easy for the lizard brain to take over.
The importance of the Leveson enquiry is not so much what its recommendations might end up being. It is the very fact that it is being held, and the rich and powerful are being called upon to explain their actions. That is why there should be an enquiry into Towards Healing and the Melbourne Response. The rich and powerful Australian Church needs to explain itself. In the original version of the Good Samaritan a man was attacked by robbers and left in a ditch, but in Sydney, the man in the ditch was left there by colleagues of the priest and Levite who passed him by. The Church should explain why, unlike the rest of the community, it should act as both judge and jury in a case where its clergy are the alleged culprits.
Some thoughts in response...
The 'infoplosion' you describe so well, however,is accompanied by a frightening epidemic of mental illness, working poor, a new underclass of people cast aside by the relentless march of global corporations, and ruthless exploitation by the Banksters.
People have no time to reflect upon the flood of information washing over them minute by minute. Next time you go into a crowded commercial medical practice take a careful look at the faces around you.
Many of them have lost hope. Who is waiting to help them? Spiritual guides? No, Big Pharma with its dangerous nostrums according to the Medical Manual.
People ask for justice, understanding and receive a referral letter,
People are also bewildered by so many myths, such as they should not support the 'politics of envy' but instead ought to place their faith in the 'trickle down effect' created by generous people who are reluctant to be so rich but are really 'wealth creators'.
Fierce patriotism and wars are encouraged by tabloids who have contempt for the lumpen proletariat.
The statement 'No man is an island' is no longer relevant.
We are not even an archipelago with a sense of communal solidarity, but a lot of confused little islets waiting for Godot.
What would Jesus say, Brian?
Jesus, the Radical Economist
By Rev. Howard Bess, Consortium News
13 June 12
Jesus made his reputation as a Jewish economist, one with very strong opinions about wealth and property, about the relationship between the rich and the poor.
He also was intensely religious and loved nothing more than debating the meaning of the law of God or Torah. For instance, he is presented in the Gospel of Luke as being a precocious 12-year-old boy absorbed in debating religious leaders about the meaning of Torah.
From early childhood he must have understood that he was seen as a brash, pushy kid from a small town in Northern Palestine, an area without religious leadership and an unemployment rate well over 50 percent.
Whether by divine wisdom or genius insight, Jesus figured out what wealthy and powerful people were doing to the poor, illiterate people with whom he lived. Primarily through his teaching and storytelling, he became identified as a populist teacher with a good deal of influence. He was good news to the poor and bad news for those who clung to their riches.
Clearly Jesus was fascinated by Torah and its application to everyday life. Luke’s gospel reports that a lettered leader of the religious community approached Jesus and asked how to attain eternal life. Jesus responded with two questions of his own: What does Torah say? How do you read it? The first question is easy to answer. The second question is the real test.
Jesus knew what Torah said, and he had strong opinions about how Torah should be read. Jesus had come to his own understanding of the property codes in the book of Leviticus. These codes are credited to Moses, but more probably come from the massive rewrite of Israelite traditions during the years of Babylonian exile in the sixth century BCE.
Torah is very straightforward. Land and ultimately all wealth belong to God, who places property in the control of human beings, not as owners but as stewards who must share it and return it to God every 49 years for redistribution.
For Israelites, time was divided into blocks of seven years. Land was not tilled in the seventh year. After a series of seven, seven-year blocks of time, a Year of Jubilee was declared. During the Year of Jubilee, all land was to be returned to the control of the priests, who, in the name of God, were to make a new and fresh distribution of all land.
In other words, the wealthy were supposed to surrender their stewardship and the poorest of the poor were given land with the encouragement to be productive for God and their fellow Israelites. All slaves were set free and all debts were canceled.
At the time when the Israelite system of Sabbaths and a Jubilee was codified, the economic and political structures may have accommodated such radical economic and social changes in a one-year observance of Jubilee.
Hundreds of years later, however, when Jesus lived and taught, the combination of Roman rule, compliant fat-cats and religious elites made the observance of Jubilee impossible. So, almost every Israelite knew what Torah said, but the prescription had not been followed in anyone’s memory. The poor had given up on the idea of a Year of Jubilee, but apparently not Jesus.
According to Luke’s gospel, early in the public ministry of Jesus, he went to a synagogue gathering and read a passage from Isaiah:
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me. God has sent me to bring good news to the poor. God has sent me to proclaim release of captives and liberty to the oppressed. This is the acceptable year of the Lord.”
Everyone in his hearing understood what he was saying. Israelites had gone too long without a Year of Jubilee. It was time for the wealthy to turn loose what they had accumulated. It was time for the poor to receive their full stewardship.
But most poor people had taken on the understanding of life that their oppressors presented and taught. It was true then; it is still true today. So, the Year of Jubilee code was regarded as impractical. However, the principles of the ownership of God, the end of slavery, and economic justice still were possible.
The Israelites who held wealth and power knew what was in Torah, but they were not interested in reading it with new eyes of compassion and justice. (When Jesus finally took his message to Jerusalem – riding in on a donkey to mock the rich who favored horses and turning over the money tables at the Temple to protest religious corruption – he was deemed an insurrectionist and was executed.)
Jesus died almost 2,000 years ago, but the laws of Sabbaths and Jubilees are still on the books today. Torah still has a powerful message, especially since the evils of greed and mindless ownership are with us in ever growing magnitude. Resulting inequities and injustices surround us.
We Americans live in a secular society, but Christians have a responsibility to influence and to train the conscience of our fellow citizens. Here in election season, Jesus appears on the scene and asks the same two questions: “What does Torah say? How do you read it?”
The Rev. Howard Bess is a retired American Baptist minister, who lives in Palmer, Alaska. His email address is hdbss@mtaonline.net.
Queen of the empire.
For anyone not knowing much about one of the leading characters in the whole saga, this article is a real eye opener (and written in the SMH!).
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/queen-of-the-empire-20120604-1zqrs.html
Former PM John Major at Leveson
SBS last night showed an excerpt of former British PM John Major's testimony at the Leveson Enquiry.
Of all the politicians interviewed so far, he seemed to be most upfront about the damage being caused by the Murdoch press, and the most forthright about what needs to be done.
It's only a short clip, so apologies Cliffy if I've misinterpreted what he said.
There are two interviews on the clip - first Labour leader Ed Miliband, and then the John Major section.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/video/2245174306/UK-politician-calls-for-cap-on-media-ownership
Annie
Dancing partners...
Yes, part of the problem I'm finding, Annie, is simply one of finding the time to watch it all. In one sense it is like watching paint drying, or grass growing — but to me watching a cricket match can be like that LOL. That highlights that in a sense we need these "intermediaries" in society — journalists and the media — who can accurately provide us with "concise summaries". The trouble is all of us, yes even the humble "nobody", have agendas and biases. Essentially what the Leveson Inquiry is about is trying to reduce the influence of those "agendas and biases" — particularly when they are able to be exercised by people with lots of money, or, like Rebekah Brooks and a lot of politicians, have climbed to positions of power without having access to huge piles of money in the first place.
My own view is that the Law and Parliaments are too blunt an intrument to create an ethical culture. They are not unimportant but a society cannot put all its eggs in the basket of believing that politicians, judges and policemen alone can create an ethical or moral society. It in fact might be an argument as to why a society needs institutional religion — although it might be also argued that the current corruption in institutional religion is a major reason why so many in society are no longer listening to religious leaders. Certainly I continue to believe a good education system plays a huge role. The trouble with education systems is that a society does to see the fruit of their work for decades, generations or centuries into the future.
One of the problems in the Western world at the moment is that many of the lizard brain elements in the leadership want to render the education system back to simply "skills for the marketplace" training — young people are "trained to be a unit in the productive economy" rather than there being an emphasis on being trained as citizens and the vocational aspect of education is the dancing partner not the one "calling the tune".
As James has pointed out on numerous occasions, it is simply insane with the institutional churches in this country being some of the most vehement critics of the introduction of ethics classes into the public education system. If the "lizard brains" in the church leaderships had been doing their jobs effectively (i.e. keeping the people in the pews) there possibly would be no call for "ethics classes" in public education.
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Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]
Dancing partners...
The ethics question seems to be getting more and more important, doesn't it. Corrupt and unethical behaviour seems to be cropping up everywhere - religion, politics, media, etc etc. Perhaps we're just more aware of it, because of the new media that make it so easy to communicate.
Even John Howard, in a muddled sort of way, was following the same idea, in his call to emphasise 'Australian' values, though his idea of what those values are is certainly not mine.
Now that the arts - philosophy, history, literature - are under such threat in our universities, perhaps it's time to get ethics for all included in the formal school curriculum. How much grounding do our teachers get in such things? Perhaps Melbourne Uni's idea of a compulsory liberal arts first degree, before working for professional qualifications, should be adopted by more Australian unis.
Once upon a time, many politicians had an arts-law degree. Now the favoured combination is law-economics. Not that it's done much for the world economy.
I'm probably prejudiced, but I think that the fall in numbers studying literature and history at tertiary level also has something to do with the fact that there are few good public speakers anymore. These disciplines give context to professional knowledge.
These thoughts of mine are all very muddled, but hang together in some odd sort of way.
Annie
UK PM David Cameron is live before Levison now...
David Cameron is appearing live before the levison Inquiry now. It is being broadcast live on ABC News24 and can also be seen online at www.levisoninquiry.org.uk. At the moment Cameron is discussing a point I made in my response to Cliff above effectively saying that you can't have a policeman sitting on the shoulder of every politician. Politicians, journalist and media proprietors need to be self-regulating about their morality and ethics.
A little earlier he made the point that the (ethical/moral) culture in an organisation is set at the top. I think that is very true and I think the breakdown we're watching at the moment — the reason why society needs a Levison Inquiry at the moment — is because of the "breakdown" that occurred at the very top of the Murdoch empire. Again I go back to the that small revelation given by former Murdoch editor, Bruce Guthrie [See www.catholica.com.au/forum/index.php?id=101611].
I also think Chris Geraghty in his recent book gave us an insight into a growing problem in society of a sort of conservative yobbo element driven by some of morality or ethics that the ends justifies the means. Here's a short quote from Geraghty describing these sort of people within the clerical culture. The point I'm making in quoting this is that these sort of people also exist in secular culture and I suspect Rupert has made great use of this element in building his enterprise:
Abo was a bully and, like most bullies, he prided himself on his ignorance. But his clergy mates admired his macho style. He used to race fast cars, played cards into the early hours of the morning and drank his whiskey straight. He rode a surfboard with the best and water-skied like a champion. He was welcome at any party in town – plenty of laughs around him. A physically attractive man with a loud personality and celibate. The women loved him. Since the beginning of Genesis, it seems that some members of the female team have been attracted to forbidden fruit – or so I've be told.
But Jack was also a man's man. What endeared him to many of his colleagues was that he was anti-intellectual and aggressively reactionary. It was a popular stand among some of the clergy, especially the more senior ranks. Jack was a fully paid-up member of the old brigade, whose world was founded on blind loyalty, military obedience, on acceptance of simple dogmas and on an unquestioning faith in the Vatican, but not in the Second Vatican Council. There was no denying that in his own presbytery he was an affable and hospitable host.
SEE: www.catholica.com.au/forum/index.php?id=104965
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Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]
UK PM David Cameron is live before Levison now...
A little earlier he made the point that the (ethical/moral) culture in an organisation is set at the top. I think that is very true and I think the breakdown we're watching at the moment — the reason why society needs a Levison Inquiry at the moment — is because of the "breakdown" that occurred at the very top of the Murdoch empire.
And isn't this what is happening with the Catholic Church? The culture of secrecy came from the top and was even enshrined in Canon Law. Now secrecy, at least in relation to clerical abuse of children, has had to be abandoned.
But now we have a culture of dishonesty, coming right from the top, where the Pope himself will not acknowledge and apologise for his own central role in the cover up. It doesn't matter what porkies have to be told, the institution of the papacy has to be defended.
And any criticism, any questioning of that culture, any pointing to the overwhelming evidence, is immediately dismissed as "anti-Catholic", as shrill and as meaningless as the cries of "anti-Semitic" for anyone who criticizes Israeli colonialism on Palestinian lands.
Context...
A little earlier he made the point that the (ethical/moral) culture in an organisation is set at the top. I think that is very true and I think the breakdown we're watching at the moment — the reason why society needs a Levison Inquiry at the moment — is because of the "breakdown" that occurred at the very top of the Murdoch empire.
And isn't this what is happening with the Catholic Church?
In answer to your point, I think the short answer is "Yes"!
I actually came back to the forum to draw attention to another point. It just strikes me as extraordinary that here we have a Prime Minister fronting an inquiry under oath and his near neighbours and former friends, Charlie and Rebekah Brooks, are facing anothe court charged with preverting the course of justice. In itself it is perhaps a turning point in political affairs that having "close personal friends" like a Prime Minister is increasingly less able to be used in society to "hush things up" and escape scrutiny. As I think it was you said earlier, James, the great benefit of the Leveson Inquiry might not come from any recommendations that it ends up making but simply the fact that it was held — and held perhaps more publicly than any similar investigation in the whole of human history. This is another example of the extraordinary impact these new communication channels are having in our lives, and in the public life of nations and governments.
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Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]
Context...
I was only thinking the other day, looking at the list of those who were called to appear, how amazing it is that the Enquiry is actually happening and that they are all having to turn up and give evidence under oath.
Imagine if they held the same sort of Enquiry in Australia into Clerical Sexual Abuse and all the 'principals' had to give evidence under oath.
Context...
Imagine if they held the same sort of Enquiry in Australia into Clerical Sexual Abuse and all the 'principals' had to give evidence under oath.
Yes, that would be a "game changer" I should imagine, Desi. I think a massive institutional systemic problem at the moment is that all of them — teachers, school principals, priests, bishops, archbishops, cardinals — today are constantly having to look over their shoulder before they say anything. Everybody has to be so very careful of what they say in public because of the activities of people such as Kate Edwards (the most interesting public example at the moment for those following her blog and her campaign against CathNews). Nobody, literally nobody, can communicate with these people. They honestly do believe they are more Catholic than the pope and they are the ones ordained to read "the mind of Almighty God" as to what God wants for humanity. This "disease" or "cancer" has reduced the entire institution to effective "silence" as a communicator in the world. As the case of +Bill Morris demonstrates, even my own wife, and I have my own "history" in this regard, you literally do have to be afraid for your livelihood in what views you express publicly in this institution today. This small remnant and temple police element "take no prisoners" and have absolutely no moral scruples or conscience about what they engage in. Even bishops and cardinals are petrified of these people albeit that some in the higher echelons seem themselves to be cut from the same cloth as the remnant/temple police elements at lower ranks in the institution.
Again I didn't come back here to write about that. The Inquiry is presently having a lunch break in London and that's the reason I've come back here. It's in relation to an earlier story that was on SBS News about the appearance of JPMorgan Chase chief Jamie Dimon before a United States Senate Banking Committee. The thing I draw to attention that Dimon is another case of a person from relatively humble origins rising pretty quickly to a position of enormous power in the world. (That point was emphasised in the news report I watched which you can find HERE.)
I really need more space than a brief comment on a forum to draw this out but I wonder if a relatively new phenomenon in society is this increased capacity for people to "rise through society" to positions of great power relatively quickly. From one point of view it is a very good thing — greater freedom of opportunity for example — from other points of view there might be hairy aspects to it. One is the lack of a culture of "noblesse oblige" (which often, or once, came with "old money" and "landed gentry"). The other aspect is that the very culture and mindset that a person needs to adopt to make such a journey upwards through society in the space of a few years, or a decade or two, does require "short cuts" that end up with the sort of problems that are having to be sorted out today by enquiries such as the Leveson Inquiry or the US Senate Banking Committee? There are great opportunities in society today for social advancement — politics I sense is one of the major channels. People quote the late Kim Beasley Snr that "the Labor Party once contained the creme of the working class and today it is populated by the dregs of the middle class" or words to that effect. What he meant, I am sure, is "social climbers" — individuals improving their own position in society albeit often mouthing the words of being there for altruistic reasons, or for "the public good", but their real motivation is their own self-advancement or that of their families. I sense it is a problem for all of the political parties today and in fact might be a far greater problem for the conservative political parties in this country since the ascent of John Howard than it is for the Labor Party.
What I am essentially drawing attention to here is that in the past society faced a great threat at times from powerful money interests. Think of some of the great scandals with railways at the end of the 19th Century in various parts of the world. I'm not entirely sure of this but a lot of that might have been tied up with what we call "old money". The phenomenon today, I'm arguing, is not so much an "old money" problem but a "naked pursuit of power and influence" problem often by people who not too many years before occupied pretty humble positions in society. I'm perhaps asking, or throwing into the ring for discussion, if it is the phenomen of the greater opportunity for social advancement in society today which is helping to provide some sort of breakdown in ethics?
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Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]
Significant on the scale of Watergate and Nuremberg...
I'm presently watching the after-lunch session with Prime Minister David Cameron before the Leveson Inquiry. I increasingly see this inquiry as epoch changing in society on the sort of scale as the Watergate Investigations in the United States, or the Nuremberg Trials in Germany at the end of the Second World War. This Inquiry may well lead to a massive change in how not only politicians, journalists and media proprietors conduct themselves in society but it may change the culture in which all business people and even ordinary citizens go about their lives. What we have been watching tonight (Australian time) is quite extraordinary where a prime minister in office is having to answer to a public inquiry under oath. The whole inquiry has been extraordinary in terms of the number of people occupying high positions in politics and business who have been forced to a higher level of public accountability than I suspect we have ever seen before.
It is significant not only in the legal terms but also for the fact that this is far more "public" than normally applies to any Royal Commission or Judicial Inquiry. These people are not only "on trial", or more correctly in a strict legal sense, "under investigation" in a sense before a judge. They are, via the global coverage via the media, "under investigation" before the court of intelligent opinion across the world.
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Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]
Significant on the scale of Watergate and Nuremberg...
Brian, I hesitate to question you on anything since I am at the stage of life now when, we are told, I cannot change a long-held opinion but are you not over-stating the case when you equate the filthiness of the manner in which Murdoch does business with the horrors done by the Germans who were tried at Nuremburg?
I have learned to have some understanding of the thinking of so many Germans during the 1930s-early 1940s when they flocked behind Hitler. At Versailles, and for 12-odd years after, the Allies of the Great War conducted themselves not always well in regard to Germany, which left open the way to renewed war.
Murdoch and his grubby family are chicken-feed compared to the Nazis, as was Nixon.
On another matter, whilst I have you, yesterday you wrote of 'Union thugs'. Yes, mate, there are such men......but who came first, Big Business thugs or Union thugs and who continue to rule the roost??
Many CEOs and CFOs, together with many, many shareholders, a majority widows may it be said, work to deny a fair go to employees.
Not to mention the far too powerful media of all descriptions.
All the vast majority of Australians want is a fair go.
Misunderstanding and clarification...
Bill the comparison I was trying to make was some equivalence in the legal impact on society of the Nuremberg trials and the Leveson Inquiry (and, for that matter, Watergate). There is a difference between that and a comparison between the events that triggered these various legal hearings.
Nuremberg was a huge legal precedent for the whole of society in that the ordinary citizen could no longer say "the boss made me do it", "the government made me do it" and "I was only following orders". Yes, there are many places in life where we do have to "follow orders" but our obedience always has to be tempered by our own reason. It was the end of "blind obedience" in a legal sense. It is true that some in the Catholic Church and other religions still do not seem to understand the significance of Nuremberg. The Watergate Inquiry and now the Leveson Inquiry amplify that huge precedent established via the Nuremberg Trials and are in a sense extending it and have or are establishing new precedents concerning the responsibilities of people with access to large amounts of power, and those who work for them — even those who might be classified as "ordinary citizens".
You misunderstand me if you interpreted what I was saying as there was some sort of equivalence between what Hitler and his regime did to those who triggered the Watergate and Leveson Inquiries.
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Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]
Misunderstanding and clarification...
I'm sorry, mate, Yes, I did misunderstand, am making far too many mistakes these days with Senior Moments.
Many, many thanks for all you give me on Catholica.
















