BREAKING NEWS: Baillieu bows to pressure on church sex-abuse probe (Main Forum)

There was some kind of inquiry in NSW years ago on sexual abuse. I am not sure of the nature of it but each day parts of it were reported in the Sydney Morning Herald. One day there was an account by a Brother (his name was not given) of his abuse of children. He had volunteered to speak. I recognised him as a former member of my novitiate group. Sine then he has served a considerable time in jail. It was the first time I realised the extent of the problem and how close it was to people I knew. I do not know if the inquiry helped or not though I think it did. I hope that the Victorian one is calm (horrible inevitably but not talkback jocks, vitriol and all that). I knew an old Brother now dead who swore to me that Bob Best could not be guilty. Best was then declaring his innocence. He is now in jail for a long time. I think the NSW inquiry made it all real for people who found it hard to believe. With luck the same might happen in Victoria.

Oh Yet We Trust

What i want out of this is to just have a day (even though i feel i am one of the very lucky ones that has come through the otherside with mind and body intact) to know that at last all the survivors because that is what we are (they love that word victim because that is what they want us to be so they keep the power) can say justice has been done and now build a life, have peace in our later years, retiremen was supposed to be what we worked har for to be free of hard work to be with our famalies not to keep watch on everyone that is near our children/grandchildren, not to be so alert when we are just walking down the street. I would also want all those that have lied, not spoken up for the children of God to be named and shamed. Wouldn't it be just great if we all got together and walked to our CHURCH THE PEOPLES CHURCH and yell out "WE ARE BACK" after been gone in Spirit for so long and sit quietly with the Lord not asking him WHY but just sitting in solace a place where our peace of mind and God was taken from us. One thing i do want is George Pells resignation he know longer can call himself a True Man of God that went out the window when he looked at that photo of Chrissie and Anthony's Daughter saying those shocking words..Yes she has changed.. the man must of been totally mad that day or had the fear of the devil running though his vains, guilty of so many sins.

Macbee

....which I perhaps shouldn't share, but oh, what the hell, I've revealed my most inner thoughts and feelings here for the last 4 years, what's another one.

Had a weird but revealing dream about a certain bishop last night that he'd come to tell me off for exposing him or writing nasty things about him (actually they weren't nasty, just true or at least simply my perception of him). At first I thought he was wearing a soutane when he got out of his car at my home but then as he approached me aggressively it was obvious that it was a dressing gown and it flew open to reveal his jocks: He'd come there to try to tell me off, which then became a seeking of resolution but with a hint of wanting to sexually assault me. So I told him, "Ok, we'll sort this out but one hint of sex from you and I'm off to the police, get it buster". And he did, he was even a little frightened.

The tables have turned, self-empowerment is returning; already a little inner psychological repercussion of even the possibility of an enquiry.

See how it can work when we feel we have others, and other bigger people on our side and not trying to pin us down? We can actually start standing up for ourselves and standing up to those who have tried to for years bully us and throw their ecclesiastical weight around.

But now they are exposed (or will be) and the world will see them in their dressing gowns and jocks and we who have been swept under the ancient carpet will come out and no longer be treated like dirt, or, at best, someone to be 'handled and manipulated' by the big boys and still suffer as a result while all the time erroneously thinking we are or have been loved and cared for.

Oh yet we trust that somehow good
Will be the final goal of ill

I think you too kind Helen ....but is a good way to be

They seek him here, they seek him there,
Those scribblers seek him everywhere.
He's sure not in heaven, saying no-one's in hell,
That damned elusive Purple-clad-Pell.[/b][/align]

desi, your at it again I see ()

Helen

Let us light a candle and say to the dark, we beg to differ

Melbourne Archbishop Denis Hart today vowed to cooperate fully with any independent child sex abuse inquiry.

I wonder when we will hear the same words from a former Melbourne Archbishop.

I'm sure that there are a posse of reporters loooking for a quote!

.

They seek him here, they seek him there,
Those scribblers seek him everywhere.
He's sure not in heaven, saying no-one's in hell,
That damned elusive Purple-clad-Pell.

.
Travel update:

He's not in Rome (yet!).

Cardinal George Pell - Diary & Events

Thursday, 12 April: Departs Sydney for Greece for the "Footsteps of St Paul Pilgrimage" Harvest Pilgrimages.

Due anytime now.

Well done, again, to the ABC for an excellent report and also, AGAIN, to Chrissie and. Anthony Foster.

Sorry Brian but this is even further off topic. I posted it earlier today in response to your lengthy questioning of the relevance of Jesus and his compassion to the horrific realities of our world. Since then the breaking news from Vic has naturally kept you busy. Here it is again and I would love to get your response.

"Equally though I am not convinced the hippie-Beatitudes-humanist picture of Jesus is succeeding that well in attracting followers to their view of what Jesus has to offer humanity, and each individual. The attitude seems to be that you don't need Jesus to be a loving and compassionate person. The "golden rule" and "common sense" tells us that if you truly want to "win friends and influence people" it is better to be nice to your neighbours rather than nasty. It's a "hard sell" to suggest that Jesus has something special to offer other than the nice sentiments contained in the Beatitudes."

Thanks Brian for your lengthy and heartfelt response. Here' my attempt at the 'hard sell.'

Christ's compassion goes far beyond the 'golden rule.' It is infused with humility, forgiveness and justice and constitutes the virtual totality of his teachings in the Gospels. He presents compassion as an intensely spiritual as well as beneficent social attribute. By loving eachother we can most readily ‘know and love’ God and the most simple way to love eachother is by compassionately responding to the relentless tide of human suffering. Stemming and even turning that tide becomes the purpose for human existence. Each of us- according to our diverse abilities- should do our uttermost to achieve that goal. In so doing we may hope to make this world more worthy of its creator and perhaps allow the 'Kingdom of God' to reestablish a bridgehead.

As for the terrible pain endured by our fellow member, Christ-like compassion may not always provide a solution let alone a miraculous cure for people in dire need. But it can bring the love of others into their hearts in solidarity with their grief. With God’s help it can give them the hope and courage to endure and enable the rest of us to persist, transcend compassion fatigue while we seek some solutions for their predicament. Christian churches should be much better at directing people in distress to finding the specific help needed to alleviate this pain. Too often it is left to impersonal bureaucracies. In a Christian humanist church, there would be far less time spent in ‘worship’ and more in addressing the real human problems on a personal, local and international level. That is the kind of church we should set up to compete with the corrupted one now sliding towards spiritual bankruptcy and irrelevance.

This kind of spiritual humanist magnifies the dimension of Jesus. It implies that our salvation in this world and perhaps, the world to come, hinges on our response to human suffering. It sees the crucifixion not as an act of guaranteed salvation per se but an expression of God's solidarity with us, the sacrifice he was prepared to make to demonstrate the depth of love that can be unleashed through the inspiration provided by Christ's model of compassionate humanism.

Barney Zwartz in The Age.

SURVIVORS of clergy sexual abuse, in the first flush of their apparent victory of winning an inquiry into the church's handling of their complaints, were delighted yesterday.

The relief at finally being heard and the hope of being vindicated by telling their stories were almost palpable.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/sexual-abuse-inquiry-hamstrung-by-practical-limitatio...

Thanks James. It seems to me from reading the reports that the chief worry about this enquiry might be the inexperience of the politicians conducting the enquiry – and also their workload. It seems some of them might be involved with other high level enquiries as well. I think the fall-back position that everyone needs to adopt is one of not viewing this particular enquiry as being capable of bringing about some final resolution of this matter. It may well be that further enquiries will be needed and I think as you have predicted yourself that this is not going to go away until there is acknowledgement at the very highest levels of the Church that this problem has arisen because of systemic failings in the institution. We are still a long, long way from getting that acknowledgement because, as we've seen, every time Benedict speaks on the subject he's always trying to push the blame downwards and imply it is a failing of a few wayward individuals. There is no acknowledgement yet that it is the system or the culture that has contributed to these pedophiles and other abusers being given shelter in the system and the system trying to cover up their behaviours by giving preference to trying to defend the moral authority of the institution and this sense "because we are the Holy Roman Catholic Church we are incapable of error" over the patent harm done to individuals.

When you still have lizard brains writing this sort of stuff which I just read on the 3AW website in response to Ab Denis Hart's interview with Neil Mitchell, we still have a long, long way to go...

As a Catholic, I am the first to condemn paedophilia - but the truth is: the Aussie media ONLY ever speaks of this so that people now think Catholic priests = paedophiles, and that all the church is corrupt and evil. Statistics show that less than 1% of priests were/are paedophiles, which means that 99.something are all good - there are thousands of priests and lay Catholics the world over who do an awful lot of GOOD and charitable work etc. I have witnessed this first hand in third world countries in particular. Why is it the Aussie media NEVER mentions any of this ever? True anti Catholic church bashing all the time! How ignorant and narrow minded, and how many people fall for it, now believing that most, if not all, priests are paedophiles. Go do some proper research is what I say!

The truth is that the media do give coverage to many of the good things the Church does. It is also true that it has only been a very small proportion of priests who have been sexual abusers. The "problem" may have been contained if the only complaint was the few "bad apples". The chief complaint today though is not over the actual abuse, as bad as that is, it has been the attempted cover up by people in positions of high authority — or the sort of completely lame responses which are illustrated graphically in Chrissie Foster's book when people have approached bishops and people in high places seeking acknowledgement, compassion and understanding, or justice. For the most graphic example of this read the report on the Broken Rites website [LINK] of the succour and protection given by higher authorities to Father Paul David Ryan. That sort of misbehaviour by high ranking officials and at least one bishop stems directly out of the fundamentalist culture and belief that the Church is infallible, incapable of error and that no stone must be unmoved in preventing scandal to that myth. If necessary lies must be told to protect the image of the Church in the eyes of the remnant minority who refuse to think for themselves, or who are incapable of thinking rationally for themselves.

I think Denis Hart ought be congratulated for doing that very tough interview with Neil Mitchell on 3AW. The question I thought was missing from Neil Mitchell's list was a question directed to the Archbishop asking the Archbishop if he believed the Melbourne Response was primarily set up to help victims or was it set up to try and limit the damage to the Church? Hart wasn't responsible for setting the Melbourne Response up but it would have been very interesting to have heard live the response, or the pauses, hesitations, and silences, of Denis Hart to a question like that.

Archbishop Hart unfortunately suffers from the belief in knowledgeable and educated circles that he was telescoped into the position he now occupies at a time when his predecessor had enormous power in deciding who got which appointments in Australia. He has to battle ten times harder than everyone else to prove that he is his own man and when he speaks he speaks from his own heart and conscience and not the conscience of the institution or anyone else who might be senior to him. There is this suspicion all bishops have to live under these days that when they speak they are not actually endeavouring "to tell the truth" but primarily trying to protect the institution they represent. That is even more difficult for Denis Hart because of the suspicion many people have over the manner of his appointment. This is the price that has been paid by them collectively squandering their moral authority in the eyes of the wider community outside the loyal remnants who'll never believe "holy Catholic priests and bishops" are ever capable of any error.

Archbishop Hart interview can be found here:
http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/breaking-news-blog/archbishop-denies-any-coverups/20120417-...

Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]

If you examine the legislation carefully you will find that the bishop or archbishop is a SOLE CORPORATE - this seems to mean that he is the legal entity responsible for what his EMPLOYEES - that is employees of the particular diocese, except for members of religious orders who come under the jurisdiction of their superiors.

As for priests being "self-employed" - the Catholic Church is the largest importer of "skilled" labour - namely priests as diocesan clergy- who are employed within a particular diocese.

Your local parish priest could run off with the parish funds and unless the bishop of the diocese makes a complaint nothing can be done.

I am not a lawyer but my experience within the Church structure taught me these lessons.

As the Chair and Board member of one diocesan agency we decided to put together a constitution so that we could access greater amounts of government funding for the agency. The lawyer on the Board told us the we were p - - -ling into the wind as we had no real legal status. We existed by the good grace of the hierarchy in charge of the diocese.