PRIESTHOOD CONVERSATION: Day Four thought starter... (Priesthood Discussion)

by Tom McMahon, 'San Jose, Ca. USA', Wednesday, April 07, 2010, 15:29 (1142 days ago)

Sadly, our priesthood conversation almost seems as though it is being outrun by the news breaking all around the world in the secular and quality religious media at the moment about the deepening crisis facing the leadership in Rome. In particular I draw your attention to the breath-taking story from Jason Berry being carried in National Catholic Reporter today and tomorrow [LINK: "Money paved way for Maciel's influence in the Vatican "]. To continue our conversation though here's the latest reflection from Tom McMahon looking back on the reflections since his last summary... [Editor]

Day Three Future Priest exchange

I had an offer to trip up to our winter chalet, which I turned down in the excitement of the exchange on Future Priest. I'll go next week, staying home for now,while the "iron" is hot. The gems are coming through: Pius the 12th in 1946 spoke of the Catholic people as a sleeping giant about to be awakened, and here we are in 2010 on this wonderful communication tool exchanging ideas maturity of fruit depends on how much sunshine enters the flesh; the maturity of people is shining through these reports, an adult ripening into mature followers of Jesus. I am excited as I read and again thank you for the privilege of responding. Like that eaglet we spoke of in our first offering I am being intellectually well-fed.

First a response to Jerome and Herbie whose comments came after I finished #3. Jerome, I enjoyed your encouragement to look for the medieval origins of the currant priesthood, a subject I have tried to detail as I wrote about the Middle Ages. Professor Gary Macy offers that it was in the 11th Century that the institution decreed that only a priest could say Mass. That's pretty late and much history is vague and unknown up to the 1100's. Herbie, you follow with clarification on the original word Presbyter, around which this whole discussion revolves. Thanks.

Let's start #4 by going to the last of the comments: Roch introduces us to a New Epoch, following up on Brian's lament of the disappearing influence of old church. Roch, we need hear more. I suspect that as the uprooting process takes place a need arises for a new vocabulary, words and liturgy changes that can be understood by the old as well as the young.

In 1967 I played the transition role (still do) as one able to explain Vatican Two to the older parishioners, a third of the parish were widows as well as to offer meaning to the young up coming generations.

Conversations with my aging mother who always was honest with me were helpful. I learned that old dogs can learn new tricks if one is clear and patient. I have been described by the archdiocesan archivist as a man with a foot in the old and the other in the new. I know it paid to be an ordained cleric and now the time has come for the laity to step up to the plate. Pius the 12th's "sleeping giant".

Gaspode, keep going on your theme of more that a parish priest. This is the very heart of this discussion, our attempting to see what the priest of the future will need to be. Let our imaginations be led by the Spirit. My idea of Holy Spirit is a built in condition in humans by the Creator and we need trust following such. Trent set up the priest as the one who knows all, rightfully so for the times. The day has come where an educated people need take a major role, people of the world and in and for the world.

Desi, the only good liturgy is a genuine expression of one's faith. We have an awful problem today because of the 'canned liturgies' that need to follow Roman rules. The clerical priest role has become boring and out of touch, too repetitive at Mass. Who has the right to limit my expression to my God? People do liturgy — in today's experience even the institution recognizes this as it calls the priest a presider. The Greek Church has elaborate liturgies, often hidden from the people as the clergy does its thing with God BUT when it comes to the consecration of the bread, aka making it special and sacred they depend on the GREAT AMEN of the people to finalize the sacredness. Right now the Roman church is struggling with TRUE PRESENCE; there is a bypass away from the peoples' role of making the bread special and sacred, Rome insisting that the priest is the sole confector. I disagree with Rome and place my emphasis on the laity as servant priests of Jesus. Liturgy is by and for the people. My faith is that the people gathered in faith and love make the body of Jeus present and the bread is the sacred symbol of that union.

Anni, you too. I have a sense that sincere people make their own personal offering when they attend Mass. As your community 'worships' the best is in their getting together, a 'body of Jesus' in your town and taking part in the communal prayer of the church/people of God. Jesus becomes the true and only leader if there is genuine and honest dialogue.

PeterR, read back on my commentaries on Eucharist/eucharist and the history of breaking bread.

Bill, keep in mind the words HOCUS POCUS, a slight against the power of the priest from medieval times. Rather than get upset the clergy should know how to offer a common sense defense of their power to bring Jesus into bread, if that is their position. People are confused with these present consecrating words and they deserve explanation. Does everyone know where the words came from — and what they stand for?

Miriam, good seed thinking ... go out and sow your message ... that is what Jesus said to do and we might keep in mind Francis of Assisi saying: "preach always and sometimes use words".

Helen, keep on that word Presbyter ... I think of senior citizens when I see it.

Billy, I am just finishing an obituary of my life long friend Don, ordained four years after me and married. Don was a true presbyter, always calling the people "you the church". Don was humble, servant type, always promoting care of the needy. The people knew who they were/are and Don was wind beneath many wings.

Goodnight now, my friends ... that is what Jesus called his followers and I hope you say the same of me.

Tom in San Jose, California ... yet feeling close.

Tom in San Jose