What actually is 'salvation'? (Main Forum)
Herbie, and all,
What would be very interesting to see — or watch or hear — would be for all the bishops of Australia to give a homily on the question "What is salvation?" and for them to be recorded and broadcast on YouTube. If you could steel some of them away from the usual caution of not saying anything to upset Benedict's "little people", my gut sense is that you'd probably find as much diversity and questioning on an issue like this as goes on in the minds of the wider Catholic population. Of course, it's not going to happen. If they ever give homilies on the question "What is salvation?" my bet is most of them would be cliched, motherhood statements re-iterating the sort of stuff we were taught about salvation at primary school in the 1940s, 50s or 60s.
JPII had a moment of madness or bravery in 1998 and came out with a radically new interpretation of Heaven, Hell and Purgatory but it seems it is only a Pope who is able to do something like that and not frighten the "little people".
'Tis a fascinating subject though: when all is 'boiled down', what actually is "Salvation"? What proportion of people still believe in it these days in terms of the image created by Michaelangelo's Last Judgement?
![[image]](http://www.catholica.com.au/misc/images2010/LastJudgement_600x674.jpg)
How many have 'junked that' into the category of fairytales similar to Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy? How many have taken on new understandings similar to the sort of stuff you've written, or which is found in the sort of writing PeterR exposed us to today? Where does Benedict sit with all of this? Where do most of the bishops sit with all of this — both privately and what they say publicly?
Fascinating questions ... but who is brave enough in the institution itself to come out and attempt to provide answers? I'll tell you the answer: your former colleague, John George!!! LOL
LOL
LOL
And the institutional leadership stand by and do nothing — encouraging this sort of 'communication strategy' by their total silence.*
*I'm sure you understand what I mean. I'm not actually singling out John George but referring to a particular class of individuals like that who think that opening their gobs is 'communicating' no matter what lack of wisdom they have to offer humanity.
![]()
Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]
Complete thread:
- Salvation string (Moved to the front page again) - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-05, 02:26
![Open whole thread [*]](templates/Catholica1/images/complete_thread.png)
- Some questions to herbie - PeterR, 2010-01-29, 19:27
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Just letting you know I'm ok - herbie, 2010-01-29, 22:06
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Just letting you know I''ve done it - herbie, 2010-01-30, 01:24
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Just letting you know - Liz, 2010-01-30, 11:07
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Just letting you know I''ve done it - for which I am grateful. - PeterR, 2010-01-30, 13:53
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- A question for Peter (and others) - ray(O), 2010-01-30, 14:18
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- A question for Peter (and others) - PeterR, 2010-01-30, 14:26
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Re: Printing - Veronica, 2010-01-30, 16:33
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- A question for Peter (and others) - PeterR, 2010-01-30, 14:26
- A bit of (impossible) forgotten salvation history - PeterR, 2010-01-30, 14:23
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Just letting you know I''ve done it - for which I am grateful. - Brian Coyne, 2010-01-30, 14:23
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- SOME (POTENTIALLY) FUNDAMENTALIST THEMES IN SALVATION HISTORY - PeterR, 2010-01-31, 12:41
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- A question for Peter (and others) - ray(O), 2010-01-30, 14:18
- Article on the pottery shard to which herbie referred - PeterR, 2010-01-30, 17:08
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Article on the pottery shard to which herbie referred - Brian Coyne, 2010-01-30, 18:49
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- A question from Vynette - vynette, 2010-01-30, 20:14
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Brian Coyne, 2010-01-30, 23:40
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Englishwoman, 2010-01-31, 17:59
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Brian Coyne, 2010-01-31, 23:56
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Kaiser, 2010-02-01, 06:35
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Englishwoman, 2010-02-01, 06:44
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - gemstones, 2010-02-01, 09:22
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-01, 11:02
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-01, 11:02
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - gemstones, 2010-02-01, 09:22
- "Junking" Israel's history... - vynette, 2010-02-01, 11:21
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- "Junking" Israel's history... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-01, 16:00
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- "Junking" Israel's history... - vynette, 2010-02-01, 17:36
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- "Junking" Israel's history... - PeterR, 2010-02-01, 19:25
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- "Junking" Israel's history... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-01, 20:53
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- "Junking" Israel's history... - PeterR, 2010-02-01, 19:25
- "Junking" Israel's history... - vynette, 2010-02-01, 17:36
- "Junking" Israel's history... a point of clarification - herbie, 2010-02-02, 11:17
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- "Junking" Israel's history... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-01, 16:00
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Englishwoman, 2010-02-01, 06:44
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - PeterR, 2010-02-01, 09:41
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Kaiser, 2010-02-01, 06:35
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Brian Coyne, 2010-01-31, 23:56
- What is salvation? Where does Jesus fit in? - Part 1 - PeterR, 2010-02-01, 15:56
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- What is salvation? Where does Jesus fit in? - Part 2 - PeterR, 2010-02-01, 16:04
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- What is salvation? Where does Jesus fit in? - Part 2 - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-01, 23:42
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Schillebeeckx: No salvation outside the world - PeterR, 2010-02-02, 16:11
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- What is salvation? Where does Jesus fit in? - Part 2 - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-01, 23:42
- What is salvation? Where does Jesus fit in? - Part 2 - PeterR, 2010-02-01, 16:04
- As they say - "The question still remains".... - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-03, 20:23
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- White and very obvious.... - vynette, 2010-02-04, 16:37
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- But was Jesus obvious and was his tactic one full of purpose? - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-04, 18:57
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- a suggestion - old robe, 2010-02-05, 07:55
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- a suggestion - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-05, 10:43
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- an answer that isn't! - old robe, 2010-02-05, 12:02
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- an answer that isn't!....TGIF tangent! - Liz, 2010-02-05, 13:38
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- an answer that isn't!....TGIF tangent! - old robe, 2010-02-05, 14:47
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- an answer that isn't!....TGIF tangent! - old robe, 2010-02-05, 14:47
- an answer that isn't!....TGIF tangent! - Liz, 2010-02-05, 13:38
- an answer that isn't! - old robe, 2010-02-05, 12:02
- a suggestion - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-05, 10:43
- Yes...to Jews - vynette, 2010-02-05, 10:41
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Yes., I'd like that. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-05, 11:17
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Yes., I'd like that. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-05, 11:17
- a suggestion - old robe, 2010-02-05, 07:55
- But was Jesus obvious and was his tactic one full of purpose? - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-04, 18:57
- White and very obvious.... - vynette, 2010-02-04, 16:37
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Englishwoman, 2010-01-31, 17:59
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Brian Coyne, 2010-01-30, 23:40
- A question from Vynette - vynette, 2010-01-30, 20:14
- Article on the pottery shard to which herbie referred - Brian Coyne, 2010-01-30, 18:49
- Just letting you know - Liz, 2010-01-30, 11:07
- Just letting you know I''ve done it - herbie, 2010-01-30, 01:24
- Some may find some answers here. The above thread in a broader context. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 09:32
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- The third article, (with a little extra) - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 09:33
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- A little more of an explanation of why I posted these articles here. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 11:00
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- A reflection - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 14:08
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Life in the Age to Come - vynette, 2010-02-02, 16:20
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- I'm interested! - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 17:44
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- I'm interested! - vynette, 2010-02-02, 18:33
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- More meat please, Vynette (and Herbie and Ian et al). - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 19:27
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- More meat please, Vynette (and Herbie and Ian et al). - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 19:27
- I'm interested! - vynette, 2010-02-02, 18:33
- I'm interested! - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 17:44
- A reflection - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 14:08
- The third article, (with a little extra) - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 09:33
- From salvation to sin and confession - PeterR, 2010-02-04, 12:29
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- DISCOVERY: ALL OF "NEBUCHADNEZZARS'S DREAM" IS ON THE NET - PeterR, 2010-02-04, 13:15
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- DISCOVERY: ALL OF "NEBUCHADNEZZARS'S DREAM" IS ON THE NET - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-04, 15:28
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- DISCOVERY: ALL OF "NEBUCHADNEZZARS'S DREAM" IS ON THE NET - Francis, 2010-02-04, 19:02
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- DISCOVERY: ALL OF "NEBUCHADNEZZARS'S DREAM" IS ON THE NET - Francis, 2010-02-04, 19:02
- Downhill from Brian ... threatening skies .... - Veronica, 2010-02-04, 16:06
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Downhill from Brian ... threatening skies .... - PeterR, 2010-02-04, 17:37
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Downhill from Brian ... threatening skies .... - PeterR, 2010-02-04, 17:37
- DISCOVERY: ALL OF "NEBUCHADNEZZARS'S DREAM" IS ON THE NET - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-04, 15:28
- From salvation to sin and confession - Helen, 2010-02-04, 15:50
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- From salvation to sin and confession - PeterR, 2010-02-04, 17:39
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- From salvation to sin and confession - PeterR, 2010-02-04, 17:39
- Not in Nebuchadnezzar's presence - herbie, 2010-02-04, 23:11
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- What actually is 'salvation'? - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-04, 23:48
- What actually is 'salvation'? - vynette, 2010-02-05, 15:33
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- What actually is 'salvation'? - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-05, 16:08
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Obedience - PeterR, 2010-02-05, 17:36
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Peter, it IS a subtle distinction... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-05, 18:54
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Peter, it IS a subtle distinction... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-05, 18:54
- What actually is 'salvation'? - vynette, 2010-02-07, 09:58
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- He might have been Son of God but was He God incarnate? - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-07, 11:01
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- No... - vynette, 2010-02-07, 14:16
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Author! Author! - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-07, 15:49
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- "Was Jesus Divine?" - Liz, 2010-02-07, 18:32
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- "Was Jesus Divine?"...again "No" - vynette, 2010-02-08, 07:49
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - Liz, 2010-02-08, 13:09
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - vynette, 2010-02-08, 14:10
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - Liz, 2010-02-08, 15:23
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - vynette, 2010-02-08, 20:27
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - vynette, 2010-02-08, 20:27
- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - Liz, 2010-02-08, 15:23
- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - vynette, 2010-02-08, 14:10
- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - Liz, 2010-02-08, 13:09
- "Was Jesus Divine?"...again "No" - vynette, 2010-02-08, 07:49
- "Was Jesus Divine?" - Liz, 2010-02-07, 18:32
- Author! Author! - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-07, 15:49
- No... - vynette, 2010-02-07, 14:16
- What actually is 'salvation'? - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-07, 15:58
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- He might have been Son of God but was He God incarnate? - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-07, 11:01
- Obedience - PeterR, 2010-02-05, 17:36
- Does anyone want Jesus to be God? This is big stuff for me. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-05, 18:25
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Does anyone want Jesus to be God? This is big stuff for me. - Liz, 2010-02-05, 19:31
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Some thoughts in response to your question... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-06, 03:13
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Some thoughts in response to your question... - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-06, 04:41
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Some thoughts in response to your question... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-06, 11:12
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- When did Christians first believe Jesus was the Son of God? - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-06, 11:27
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- When did Christians first believe Jesus was the Son of God? - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-06, 11:27
- Some thoughts in response to your question... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-06, 11:12
- Some thoughts in response to your question... - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-06, 04:41
- Does anyone want Jesus to be God? This is big stuff for me. - Liz, 2010-02-05, 19:31
- What actually is 'salvation'? - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-05, 16:08
- What actually is 'salvation'? - vynette, 2010-02-05, 15:33
- What actually is 'salvation'? - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-04, 23:48
- From child/parent to brother/sister in Christ concepts of sin and salvation. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-05, 10:12
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- The origins, and meaning, of the story of the Fall... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-07, 16:41
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Hide and/or Seek (and Find) - it's up to us: We're free to choose. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-07, 18:24
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Hide and/or Seek (and Find) - it's up to us: We're free to choose. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-07, 18:24
- The origins, and meaning, of the story of the Fall... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-07, 16:41
- DISCOVERY: ALL OF "NEBUCHADNEZZARS'S DREAM" IS ON THE NET - PeterR, 2010-02-04, 13:15
- After all that, what is salvation? - PeterR, 2010-02-06, 17:19
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Just letting you know I'm ok - herbie, 2010-01-29, 22:06
- Salvation string (Moved to the front page again) - Tom McMahon, 2010-02-09, 10:19
![Show preview […]](templates/Catholica1/images/ajax_preview.png)
- Some questions to herbie - PeterR, 2010-01-29, 19:27
















