A reflection (Main Forum)
'Salvation history' must be personal salvation history which influences our everyday existence, our decisions and choices, our self image and that of those with whom we meet day by day, or it is nothing.
Day after day, O lord of my life,
shall I stand before thee face to face.
With folded hands, O lord of all worlds,
shall I stand before thee face to face.
Under thy great sky in solitude and silence,
with humble heart shall I stand before thee face to face.
In this laborious world of thine, tumultuous with toil
and with struggle, among hurrying crowds
shall I stand before thee face to face.
And when my work shall be done in this world,
O King of kings, alone and speechless
shall I stand before thee face to face.
Rabindranath Tagore
If then we gather with like-minded people, well and good and probably humanly necessary but if not, also well and good. Did Christ call us as a 'people' or as individuals who then communicate with each other in the process of our individuation in Christ to God? When we come to our end are we a member of a group, a people or a church or are we on our own albeit belonging to the Body of Christ because of our personal choice and commitment to be so? Did God intend the descendants of Abraham to be forever a collective? Did not, out of that collective come a Man who would show us the way the truth and the life/light - Himself - someone who calls us to a radical and absurd marriage with Him, to be united with Him in our journey to God who is Him?
Even though there are deep truths within almost every spiritual writing, are the scriptures and the history of a people, the volumes of theology, are all these and others written by enlightened individuals or by a people, a group, a church or a person trapped in the ethical stage of existence and, therefore, not quite there yet or not quite grasping the whole truth, the whole complete picture which can only come beyond but not without reason, that goes beyond the need for a flawless history, that goes beyond the need of a go-between church or priesthood or philosophy or constructed personal system of certainty?
If God and Christ are real and communicate to us, do we need to be tied to a history? Yes we are products of our own personal and communal histories but can God not take us beyond these - do we need them, if God/Christ is real? Is God personal, living, real or a product only of historical writing and national and even religious history? That history with its writings, scriptures thinkers and prophets are never the whole story: The only place we can find the whole story is within and within the context of God. Yes, we rely on those who have gone before, just like we rely on them for our language, our learning and our survival but until we take the leap of faith which takes us out of our comfort zone of controlled rationality and controlled, systemetised spirituality, out of our controlled ethical structures and our incessant search for distraction, and from these, onwards into our personal journey of which there are no real signposts into the future, no real control except, as with Abraham, in our choice to go ahead, all our controlled life means little and can never satisfy, or save or redeem.
And Jesus says to all individually as he said to the 'rich' man, "can you do this"? But he went away sad because he was a very 'wealthy' and controlled man.
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Oh yet we trust that somehow good
Will be the final goal of ill
Complete thread:
- Salvation string (Moved to the front page again) - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-05, 02:26
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- Some questions to herbie - PeterR, 2010-01-29, 19:27
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- Just letting you know I'm ok - herbie, 2010-01-29, 22:06
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- Just letting you know I''ve done it - herbie, 2010-01-30, 01:24
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- Just letting you know - Liz, 2010-01-30, 11:07
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- Just letting you know I''ve done it - for which I am grateful. - PeterR, 2010-01-30, 13:53
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- A question for Peter (and others) - ray(O), 2010-01-30, 14:18
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- A question for Peter (and others) - PeterR, 2010-01-30, 14:26
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- Re: Printing - Veronica, 2010-01-30, 16:33
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- A question for Peter (and others) - PeterR, 2010-01-30, 14:26
- A bit of (impossible) forgotten salvation history - PeterR, 2010-01-30, 14:23
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- Just letting you know I''ve done it - for which I am grateful. - Brian Coyne, 2010-01-30, 14:23
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- SOME (POTENTIALLY) FUNDAMENTALIST THEMES IN SALVATION HISTORY - PeterR, 2010-01-31, 12:41
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- A question for Peter (and others) - ray(O), 2010-01-30, 14:18
- Article on the pottery shard to which herbie referred - PeterR, 2010-01-30, 17:08
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- Article on the pottery shard to which herbie referred - Brian Coyne, 2010-01-30, 18:49
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- A question from Vynette - vynette, 2010-01-30, 20:14
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- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Brian Coyne, 2010-01-30, 23:40
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- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Englishwoman, 2010-01-31, 17:59
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- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Brian Coyne, 2010-01-31, 23:56
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- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Kaiser, 2010-02-01, 06:35
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- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Englishwoman, 2010-02-01, 06:44
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- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - gemstones, 2010-02-01, 09:22
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- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-01, 11:02
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- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-01, 11:02
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - gemstones, 2010-02-01, 09:22
- "Junking" Israel's history... - vynette, 2010-02-01, 11:21
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- "Junking" Israel's history... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-01, 16:00
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- "Junking" Israel's history... - vynette, 2010-02-01, 17:36
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- "Junking" Israel's history... - PeterR, 2010-02-01, 19:25
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- "Junking" Israel's history... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-01, 20:53
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- "Junking" Israel's history... - PeterR, 2010-02-01, 19:25
- "Junking" Israel's history... - vynette, 2010-02-01, 17:36
- "Junking" Israel's history... a point of clarification - herbie, 2010-02-02, 11:17
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- "Junking" Israel's history... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-01, 16:00
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Englishwoman, 2010-02-01, 06:44
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - PeterR, 2010-02-01, 09:41
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- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Kaiser, 2010-02-01, 06:35
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Brian Coyne, 2010-01-31, 23:56
- What is salvation? Where does Jesus fit in? - Part 1 - PeterR, 2010-02-01, 15:56
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- What is salvation? Where does Jesus fit in? - Part 2 - PeterR, 2010-02-01, 16:04
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- What is salvation? Where does Jesus fit in? - Part 2 - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-01, 23:42
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- Schillebeeckx: No salvation outside the world - PeterR, 2010-02-02, 16:11
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- What is salvation? Where does Jesus fit in? - Part 2 - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-01, 23:42
- What is salvation? Where does Jesus fit in? - Part 2 - PeterR, 2010-02-01, 16:04
- As they say - "The question still remains".... - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-03, 20:23
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- White and very obvious.... - vynette, 2010-02-04, 16:37
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- But was Jesus obvious and was his tactic one full of purpose? - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-04, 18:57
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- a suggestion - old robe, 2010-02-05, 07:55
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- a suggestion - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-05, 10:43
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- an answer that isn't! - old robe, 2010-02-05, 12:02
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- an answer that isn't!....TGIF tangent! - Liz, 2010-02-05, 13:38
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- an answer that isn't!....TGIF tangent! - old robe, 2010-02-05, 14:47
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- an answer that isn't!....TGIF tangent! - old robe, 2010-02-05, 14:47
- an answer that isn't!....TGIF tangent! - Liz, 2010-02-05, 13:38
- an answer that isn't! - old robe, 2010-02-05, 12:02
- a suggestion - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-05, 10:43
- Yes...to Jews - vynette, 2010-02-05, 10:41
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- Yes., I'd like that. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-05, 11:17
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- Yes., I'd like that. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-05, 11:17
- a suggestion - old robe, 2010-02-05, 07:55
- But was Jesus obvious and was his tactic one full of purpose? - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-04, 18:57
- White and very obvious.... - vynette, 2010-02-04, 16:37
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Englishwoman, 2010-01-31, 17:59
- Scripture as blueprint for navigating Life... - Brian Coyne, 2010-01-30, 23:40
- A question from Vynette - vynette, 2010-01-30, 20:14
- Article on the pottery shard to which herbie referred - Brian Coyne, 2010-01-30, 18:49
- Just letting you know - Liz, 2010-01-30, 11:07
- Just letting you know I''ve done it - herbie, 2010-01-30, 01:24
- Some may find some answers here. The above thread in a broader context. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 09:32
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- The third article, (with a little extra) - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 09:33
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- A little more of an explanation of why I posted these articles here. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 11:00
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- A reflection - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 14:08
- Life in the Age to Come - vynette, 2010-02-02, 16:20
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- I'm interested! - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 17:44
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- I'm interested! - vynette, 2010-02-02, 18:33
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- More meat please, Vynette (and Herbie and Ian et al). - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 19:27
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- More meat please, Vynette (and Herbie and Ian et al). - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 19:27
- I'm interested! - vynette, 2010-02-02, 18:33
- I'm interested! - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 17:44
- The third article, (with a little extra) - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-02, 09:33
- From salvation to sin and confession - PeterR, 2010-02-04, 12:29
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- DISCOVERY: ALL OF "NEBUCHADNEZZARS'S DREAM" IS ON THE NET - PeterR, 2010-02-04, 13:15
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- DISCOVERY: ALL OF "NEBUCHADNEZZARS'S DREAM" IS ON THE NET - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-04, 15:28
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- DISCOVERY: ALL OF "NEBUCHADNEZZARS'S DREAM" IS ON THE NET - Francis, 2010-02-04, 19:02
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- DISCOVERY: ALL OF "NEBUCHADNEZZARS'S DREAM" IS ON THE NET - Francis, 2010-02-04, 19:02
- Downhill from Brian ... threatening skies .... - Veronica, 2010-02-04, 16:06
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- Downhill from Brian ... threatening skies .... - PeterR, 2010-02-04, 17:37
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- Downhill from Brian ... threatening skies .... - PeterR, 2010-02-04, 17:37
- DISCOVERY: ALL OF "NEBUCHADNEZZARS'S DREAM" IS ON THE NET - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-04, 15:28
- From salvation to sin and confession - Helen, 2010-02-04, 15:50
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- From salvation to sin and confession - PeterR, 2010-02-04, 17:39
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- From salvation to sin and confession - PeterR, 2010-02-04, 17:39
- Not in Nebuchadnezzar's presence - herbie, 2010-02-04, 23:11
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- What actually is 'salvation'? - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-04, 23:48
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- What actually is 'salvation'? - vynette, 2010-02-05, 15:33
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- What actually is 'salvation'? - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-05, 16:08
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- Obedience - PeterR, 2010-02-05, 17:36
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- Peter, it IS a subtle distinction... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-05, 18:54
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- Peter, it IS a subtle distinction... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-05, 18:54
- What actually is 'salvation'? - vynette, 2010-02-07, 09:58
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- He might have been Son of God but was He God incarnate? - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-07, 11:01
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- No... - vynette, 2010-02-07, 14:16
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- Author! Author! - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-07, 15:49
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- "Was Jesus Divine?" - Liz, 2010-02-07, 18:32
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- "Was Jesus Divine?"...again "No" - vynette, 2010-02-08, 07:49
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- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - Liz, 2010-02-08, 13:09
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- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - vynette, 2010-02-08, 14:10
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- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - Liz, 2010-02-08, 15:23
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- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - vynette, 2010-02-08, 20:27
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- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - vynette, 2010-02-08, 20:27
- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - Liz, 2010-02-08, 15:23
- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - vynette, 2010-02-08, 14:10
- "Was Jesus Divine?" What does this mean? - Liz, 2010-02-08, 13:09
- "Was Jesus Divine?"...again "No" - vynette, 2010-02-08, 07:49
- "Was Jesus Divine?" - Liz, 2010-02-07, 18:32
- Author! Author! - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-07, 15:49
- No... - vynette, 2010-02-07, 14:16
- What actually is 'salvation'? - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-07, 15:58
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- He might have been Son of God but was He God incarnate? - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-07, 11:01
- Obedience - PeterR, 2010-02-05, 17:36
- Does anyone want Jesus to be God? This is big stuff for me. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-05, 18:25
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- Does anyone want Jesus to be God? This is big stuff for me. - Liz, 2010-02-05, 19:31
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- Some thoughts in response to your question... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-06, 03:13
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- Some thoughts in response to your question... - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-06, 04:41
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- Some thoughts in response to your question... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-06, 11:12
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- When did Christians first believe Jesus was the Son of God? - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-06, 11:27
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- When did Christians first believe Jesus was the Son of God? - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-06, 11:27
- Some thoughts in response to your question... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-06, 11:12
- Some thoughts in response to your question... - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-06, 04:41
- Does anyone want Jesus to be God? This is big stuff for me. - Liz, 2010-02-05, 19:31
- What actually is 'salvation'? - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-05, 16:08
- What actually is 'salvation'? - vynette, 2010-02-05, 15:33
- What actually is 'salvation'? - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-04, 23:48
- From child/parent to brother/sister in Christ concepts of sin and salvation. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-05, 10:12
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- The origins, and meaning, of the story of the Fall... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-07, 16:41
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- Hide and/or Seek (and Find) - it's up to us: We're free to choose. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-07, 18:24
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- Hide and/or Seek (and Find) - it's up to us: We're free to choose. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2010-02-07, 18:24
- The origins, and meaning, of the story of the Fall... - Brian Coyne, 2010-02-07, 16:41
- DISCOVERY: ALL OF "NEBUCHADNEZZARS'S DREAM" IS ON THE NET - PeterR, 2010-02-04, 13:15
- After all that, what is salvation? - PeterR, 2010-02-06, 17:19
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- Just letting you know I'm ok - herbie, 2010-01-29, 22:06
- Salvation string (Moved to the front page again) - Tom McMahon, 2010-02-09, 10:19
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- Some questions to herbie - PeterR, 2010-01-29, 19:27
















