Just letting you know I''ve done it - for which I am grateful. (Main Forum)

by PeterR , Saturday, January 30, 2010, 13:53 (1212 days ago) @ herbie
edited by PeterR, Saturday, January 30, 2010, 19:21

herbie,

Thanks very much for your response. I printed it out early this morning to study it in detail.

Since then, I note that there have been many visitors to your reply. Lest any of these persons is not familiar with some of your references, I have tried to find links that may assist them.

WHAT IS SALVATION HISTORY?

The concept, salvation history, is a relatively new one. My search revealed that "Heilsgeschichte" (salvation history) first came to prominence in nineteenth century German Protestantism through the work of J.C von Hofman (1810-1877) of the Erlangen school". This is consistent with what herbie wrote.

Let me give my description of salvation history, any criticism of which is welcome:

God created, man sinned (tempted by woman), God promised a redeemer. Salvation is promised.

Salvation begins: Abraham is called by God to leave his homeland. As the man of faith he obeys the call of God. Already the exodus experience of later times is introduced. Thus begins the saga of God's salvation of humans.

Salvation history continues through Isaac, Jacob and his youngest son Joseph who settles in Egypt and interprets Pharoah's dreams.

Moses leads the descendants of Abraham from Egypt to the Promised Land. This exodus ends at the Jordan where Christ's public life begins.

Christ is the saviour (in His life, death and Resurrection) who continues to live in the Church thus making salvation available to all/many(?) - ask +B16.

Built into this history are constant themes, e.g, overshadowing as signs of God's presence: in the exodus through the desert Israel is guided by an overshadowing cloud by day and pillar of fire by night; Christ is overshadowed at both his baptism and transfiguration; the overshadowing on Pentecost.

(I have a two volume set of "Bible Themes" plus numerous other books on this topic. If I were to count the number of themes I am sure there would be more than 1,000 themes.)

Throughout the Bible, it easy to portray the continuing action of God. But if the saga were written late in time, the continuity of themes would have been a "logical" approach to follow. (A "who-dun-it" without sufficient clues is a fraud.)

Question: What happens to this story of salvation when we introduce evolution?

GERMAN HISTORY: Geschichte

herbie introduced the word ‘Geschichte’. As I know no German, but guessed it meant history, I went on a Google for ‘Geschichte’.

The first landing was this:

‘Geschichte’
Die unendliche Geschichte
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088323/

I suspect the statement of the theme of this video is consistent with what herbie was offering us: "A boy who needs a friend finds a world that needs a hero in a land beyond imagination!"

Another link, which was more comprehensible after I opted for the english translation was at:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://de.wikipedia.org/wik...

HISTORICAL CRITICAL METHOD

My next search was for some data to offer those new to this topic on the historical-critical method. Here is one article.

http://www.csunsw.unitingchurch.org.au/Bible%20Studies/Historical%20Critical%20Method%2...

If anybody is shocked by what is written there, may I provide a ink to the encyclical of Pope Pius XII, which, like some of us, is getting old:

DIVINO AFFLANTE SPIRITU ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_30091943_...

A couple of paragraphs from the encyclical might whet the appetite for the whole document:

"32. There are, in fine, other books or texts, which contain difficulties brought to light only in quite recent times, since a more profound knowledge of antiquity has given rise to new questions, on the basis of which the point at issue may be more appropriately examined. Quite wrongly therefore do some pretend, not rightly understanding the conditions of biblical study, that nothing remains to be added by the Catholic exegete of our time to what Christian antiquity has produced; since, on the contrary, these our times have brought to light so many things, which call for a fresh investigation, and which stimulate not a little the practical zest of the present-day interpreter."

33. As in our age, indeed new questions and new difficulties are multiplied, so, by God's favor, new means and aids to exegesis are also provided. Among these it is worthy of special mention that Catholic theologians, following the teaching of the Holy Fathers and especially of the Angelic and Common Doctor, have examined and explained the nature and effects of biblical inspiration more exactly and more fully than was wont to be done in previous ages. For having begun by expounding minutely the principle that the inspired writer, in composing the sacred book, is the living and reasonable instrument of the Holy Spirit, they rightly observe that, impelled by the divine motion, he so uses his faculties and powers, that from the book composed by him all may easily infer "the special character of each one and, as it were, his personal traits."[28] Let the interpreter then, with all care and without neglecting any light derived from recent research, endeavor to determine the peculiar character and circumstances of the sacred writer, the age in which he lived, the sources written or oral to which he had recourse and the forms of expression he employed.

34. Thus can he the better understand who was the inspired author, and what he wishes to express by his writings. There is no one indeed but knows that the supreme rule of interpretation is to discover and define what the writer intended to express, as St. Athanasius excellently observes: "Here, as indeed is expedient in all other passages of Sacred Scripture, it should be noted, on what occasion the Apostle spoke; we should carefully and faithfully observe to whom and why he wrote, lest, being ignorant of these points, or confounding one with another, we miss the real meaning of the author."[29]

HERBIE'S CONCLUSIONS, which appeal to me:

Sure Jesus is fixed ( trapped?) in the later end of the story, but he is not Geschichte/historical hero. He is an individual teacher of integrity. Were he born today, we would take his Word, and not feel the need to authenticate it against the manipulated history and treasured memories of a particular ethnic group.

That scene in Luke 2:33 is the ultimate statement of my religious faith: ‘peace on earth and good will..” - but only because that narrative is speaking of the baby Jesus, that enormous teacher of love from the god and of love which women and men are to replicate within their societies...

Everything our near-mythical gospels record of his sayings remind us of the daily challenge to love our neighbour before we claim to know that God loves us. The main part of his tragedy was that he had no other way to express his teaching apart from cutting loose from pretences of justice in the junk history he had had to take on board.

Thanks, herbie. Now I have more prondering to undertake. What a boring life it would have been if I had just stayed with the certainties of the Catechism of the Council of Trent (adapted to Australian culture) that I memorised at school.

Peter