Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief (Main Forum)
James, thanks for your observations. I didn't read the paper through the eyes of a lawyer. As you suggest "much of what it describes has been well documented before". What I thought was valuable in the book was that he had assembled a lot of that evidence in one place. What I don't think can be disputed either are the general observations that flow out of the evidence — essentially backing up what you yourself have written in various places — that those at the very top have not taken responsibility for the crisis and, in various ways, endeavoured to protect the reputation of the institution in preference to either attending to the needs of the victims or taking effective measures to ensure the incidence of abuse was reduced or eliminated.
I do believe whoever posted the article on Elephants in the Living Room could have provided some further background information. It was even confusing initially in that the article seemed to be attributed to Bishop Robinson. From the slim reference at the end of the article, and also from Yallop's website and Amazon, it seems this paper is taken from a chapter (or chapters) in his book "The Power and the Glory: Inside the Dark Heart of Pope John Paul II's Vatican" originally published Mar 7, 2007. (The edition presently available on Amazon is a 2009 edition.) The paper on the Elephants in the Living Room seems to be a draft of the Kindle Edition, or possibly a draft of a paper he delivered somewhere at some stage — there are a heck of a lot of typos in it — and the Amazon Kindle page says the Kindle Edition of Beyond Belief has been updated to August 2010. This "draft" paper on Elephants would seem to be not updated but finishes its evidence back around 2005, or possibly 2007.
Given all the criticisms — both yours and mine — I still view the assembly of this material as a valuable contribution to what is a generally damning indictment of the manner in which this institution has handled this entire scandal around the world. What seems to motivate the entire institutional hierarchy these days is this constant need to pretend that this church and its leaders are perfect and never make mistakes and no teachings ever need to be reversed because that will diminish their reputation or authority in the eyes of humanity. It is not Christ-like behaviour but the behaviour either of bullies who are prepared to trample over anybody — including abused children if necessary — in pursuit of their ego satisfaction, or mummy's boys who have never matured (weren't those statistics from Eugene Kennedy's research in the early 1970s interesting? and the later one's quoted from a separate study?) whose entire lives seem centred around trying to prove to their mothers what nice, powerful, clever, intelligent, or "good" boys they turned out to be. It might impress this small remnant and conservative minority in the church are into that sort of stuff, and who all the energy is expended on, but I sense the vast bulk of the population in the Western world are well and truly over it.
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Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]
Complete thread:
- Beyond Belief: The Sexual Abuse Crisis by David Yallop - desi, 2012-07-07, 18:36
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- from 'Elephants in the living room' - Helen, 2012-07-07, 17:26
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- from 'Elephants in the living room' - Brian Coyne, 2012-07-07, 18:14
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- from 'Elephants in the living room' - Helen, 2012-07-07, 18:30
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- from 'Elephants in the living room' - desi, 2012-07-07, 18:43
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- from 'Elephants in the living room' - Milly, 2012-07-07, 19:26
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- from 'Elephants in the living room'...thanks Milly! - desi, 2012-07-07, 20:05
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- from 'Elephants in the living room'...thanks Milly! - Angela, 2012-07-07, 20:12
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- from 'Elephants in the living room'...thanks Milly! - Milly, 2012-07-08, 07:00
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- It worked HOWEVER - Angela, 2012-07-08, 12:26
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- It worked HOWEVER - Angela, 2012-07-08, 12:26
- from 'Elephants in the living room'...thanks Milly! - Milly, 2012-07-08, 07:00
- from 'Elephants in the living room'...thanks Milly! - Angela, 2012-07-07, 20:12
- from 'Elephants in the living room'...thanks Milly! - desi, 2012-07-07, 20:05
- from 'Elephants in the living room' - Milly, 2012-07-07, 19:26
- from 'Elephants in the living room' - desi, 2012-07-07, 18:43
- from 'Elephants in the living room' - Helen, 2012-07-07, 18:30
- from 'Elephants in the living room' can't get link - Debb, 2012-07-07, 19:59
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- from 'Elephants in the living room' Now got link - Debb, 2012-07-07, 20:05
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- from 'Elephants in the living room' Now got link - Debb, 2012-07-07, 20:05
- from 'Elephants in the living room' - Helen, 2012-07-07, 20:50
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- from 'Elephants in the living room' - Brian Coyne, 2012-07-07, 18:14
- Beyond Belief: The Sexual Abuse Crisis NOT by Bishop Geoffrey Robinson? - AnnieJ, 2012-07-07, 19:04
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- Beyond Belief: The Sexual Abuse Crisis NOT by Bishop Geoffrey Robinson? - Helen, 2012-07-07, 19:11
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- Beyond Belief: The Sexual Abuse Crisis NOT by Bishop Geoffrey Robinson? - AnnieJ, 2012-07-07, 21:46
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- Beyond Belief: The Sexual Abuse Crisis NOT by Bishop Geoffrey Robinson? - AnnieJ, 2012-07-07, 21:46
- It IS by David Yallop - a rather large glitch by EITR!! - Helen, 2012-07-07, 20:48
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- It IS by David Yallop - a rather large glitch by EITR!! - desi, 2012-07-07, 21:03
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- It IS by David Yallop - a rather large glitch by EITR!! - desi, 2012-07-07, 21:03
- Beyond Belief: The Sexual Abuse Crisis NOT by Bishop Geoffrey Robinson? - Helen, 2012-07-07, 19:11
- Beyond Belief: The Sexual Abuse Crisis by David Yallop - desi, 2012-07-07, 19:04
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- Beyond Belief: The Sexual Abuse Crisis by Bishop Geoffrey Robinson - Helen, 2012-07-07, 19:19
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- I've just finished reading it. - Milly, 2012-07-08, 01:48
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- I've just finished reading it. - kaythegardener, 2012-07-08, 07:47
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- I've just finished reading it. - judith, 2012-07-08, 08:21
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- I've just finished reading it. - kaythegardener, 2012-07-08, 07:47
- Why the institutional leadership cannot rely on the excuse "we did not know"... - Brian Coyne, 2012-07-08, 10:55
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- Being reduced to a state of Disbelief... - Brian Coyne, 2012-07-08, 11:24
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- Why the institutional leadership cannot rely on the excuse "we did not know"... - judith, 2012-07-08, 16:19
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- Who do they think they are fooling? - Brian Coyne, 2012-07-08, 18:26
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- Who do they think they are fooling? - Brian Coyne, 2012-07-08, 18:26
- Being reduced to a state of Disbelief... - Brian Coyne, 2012-07-08, 11:24
- Beyond Belief: copies available - Englishwoman, 2012-07-08, 14:37
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- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - James, 2012-07-08, 22:57
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- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - desi, 2012-07-08, 23:12
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- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - James, 2012-07-09, 00:31
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- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - Brian Coyne, 2012-07-09, 01:14
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- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - James, 2012-07-09, 01:33
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- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - James, 2012-07-09, 01:33
- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - Brian Coyne, 2012-07-09, 01:14
- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - James, 2012-07-09, 00:31
- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - Milly, 2012-07-08, 23:36
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- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - Brian Coyne, 2012-07-09, 00:54
- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - James, 2012-07-09, 01:23
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- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - James, 2012-07-09, 01:23
- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - Helen, 2012-07-09, 01:13
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- I too have some serious misgivings about Beyond Belief - Enda, 2012-07-09, 10:37
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- I too have some serious misgivings about Beyond Belief - Enda, 2012-07-09, 10:37
- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - Liz, 2012-07-09, 11:55
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- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - James, 2012-07-09, 12:36
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- A quote from Beyond Belief - Relevant for the current situation? - desi, 2012-07-09, 14:29
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- A quote from Beyond Belief - Relevant for the current situation? - James, 2012-07-09, 20:54
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- A quote from Beyond Belief - Relevant for the current situation? - desi, 2012-07-09, 21:11
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- The other possibility is that he was quoting from the German edition of Der Spiegel - Brian Coyne, 2012-07-09, 22:48
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- The other possibility is that he was quoting from the German edition of Der Spiegel - James, 2012-07-09, 23:05
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- The other possibility is that he was quoting from the German edition of Der Spiegel - James, 2012-07-09, 23:05
- A quote from Beyond Belief - Relevant for the current situation? - desi, 2012-07-09, 21:11
- A quote from Beyond Belief - Relevant for the current situation? - James, 2012-07-09, 20:54
- A quote from Beyond Belief - Relevant for the current situation? - desi, 2012-07-09, 14:29
- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - James, 2012-07-09, 12:36
- Some Serious Misgivings about Beyond Belief - desi, 2012-07-08, 23:12
- from 'Elephants in the living room' - Helen, 2012-07-07, 17:26
















