"I was only following orders" — the defence that humanity rejected at Nuremberg! (Main Forum)
I can remember having an argument a few years ago with one of our challenged friends in another place over the meaning of the Nuremberg Trials at the end of the Second World War. The poor fellow honestly did not seem to understand that the critical insight given to humankind through those cathartic events that eventually came to resolution at Nuremberg is that henceforth in history it would be difficult for any person to claim "but I was only following the orders of my boss". We human beings are always called upon to apply our own moral judgment to the orders of our bosses — however powerful they might be.
There should have been no great surprise for Catholics at the outcome of the Nuremberg judgments given that what I would argue is one of the most profound insights of Catholicism is the place of primacy held by personal conscience. The sad thing, perhaps even tragic, is that some in very high places today would seem to want to water down, or reinterpret, this great "Catholic" wisdom and insight and even "ditch it". [See Cardinal George Pell's comment quoted in Dr Anne O'Brien's essay on Catholica HERE: "The doctrine of the primacy of conscience should be quietly ditched, at least in our schools."]
The remnant/fundamentalist element in Catholicism, and it seems some bishops, always try and reinterpret this great teaching and insight into some "game" where the individual has to "conform one's conscience to the teachings of Holy Mother Church". In other words: in every situation you have to reach the same conclusion that Holy Mother Church might come to (or some bishop or cardinal or pope).
The insight and teaching isn't saying that at all. Sure, we have to be "informed" by things like the Ten Commandments and the teachings of the Church and other moral/ethical authorities, but in the final analysis "The Church" or "other Moral/Ethical authorities (such as governments or courts of law)" cannot be sitting in place of our intellects in reaching the particular moral judgments about the course of action we ought to take. Very often, in the nitty-gritty of life — as in those officers tried at Nuremberg — we are often called upon to ourselves make moral judgments and choose between various laws, statutes, commandments and commands that might well be in conflict. There will be no pope, priest or cardinal there to whisper in our ear what is the particular and correct moral course to take. We need to be educated, informed and formed enough to be capable of making those particular moral judgments in conformity to our own conscience — the "inner voice of God" if you like — not some judgment that the likes of a Cardinal Pell, some priest or some pope might make if they had access to all the particular moral parameters we have to navigate through to find "the correct moral pathway" in the particular moral judgment or evaluation we are called upon to make. [I suspect a sentence like that would still be too complex for the fellow I was arguing with a year or so ago to understand. He would only be capable of understanding it if someone like a Cardinal Pell or Pope Benedict (some "authority figure") spelt it out to him. That seems as likely to happen in the present millieu as pigs might fly. For example the world still awaits the response of the Vatican to the letter submitted to them by a significantly large group of educated Australian Catholics about three years ago for some clarification on the "opinions" of Cardinal George Pell on this critical issue of the meaning of this "teaching" and whether the Vatican believes, like Pell, that it "should be quietly ditched, at least in our schools."]
Perhaps the evident failings at the very highest levels of the institution in these present matters as to how they have failed in responding to the complaints about clerical sexual abuse might be an opportunity for a bit of informed and intelligent catechesis in these matters? Or, if things go on the way they are going, eventually there will be the equivalent of some "Nuremberg Trial" that might drive this home to the Ecclesiastical Officer Class who are belatedly finding out that they perhaps neither understood the significance of the original Nuremberg Trials, nor the real meaning of this great insight of Catholic teaching.
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Brian Coyne
[Editor & Publisher]
Complete thread:
- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - Watch the programme - desi, 2012-05-04, 05:56
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- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - Watch the programme - James, 2012-05-04, 07:49
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- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - Watch the programme - desi, 2012-05-04, 10:35
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- Doctors of Canon Law as Typists - James, 2012-05-04, 16:51
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- Doctors of Canon Law as Typists - James, 2012-05-04, 16:51
- This is NOT going to go away... - Brian Coyne, 2012-05-04, 15:35
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- This is NOT going to go away... - James, 2012-05-04, 18:36
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- Benedict unlikely to want Brady to quit in Rome - desi, 2012-05-04, 22:08
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- Benedict unlikely to want Brady to quit in Rome - desi, 2012-05-04, 22:08
- This is NOT going to go away... - James, 2012-05-04, 18:36
- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - Watch the programme - AnnieJ, 2012-05-04, 16:53
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- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - Watch the programme - James, 2012-05-04, 16:59
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- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - Watch the programme - AnnieJ, 2012-05-04, 17:22
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- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - Watch the programme - AnnieJ, 2012-05-04, 17:22
- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - Watch the programme - James, 2012-05-04, 16:59
- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - Watch the programme - desi, 2012-05-04, 10:35
- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - Watch the programme - Macbee, 2012-05-04, 10:35
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- Fergus Finlay of Barnardo's speaks of abuse - desi, 2012-05-04, 22:14
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- Fergus Finlay of Barnardo's speaks of abuse - desi, 2012-05-04, 22:14
- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - Watch the programme - Roy, 2012-05-05, 03:16
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- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - LACK OF CONSCIENCE?? - kaythegardener, 2012-05-05, 07:19
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- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - LACK OF CONSCIENCE?? - James, 2012-05-05, 07:53
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- The spirit of the law (conscience) gives life. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2012-05-05, 08:03
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- "I was only following orders" — the defence that humanity rejected at Nuremberg! - Brian Coyne, 2012-05-05, 09:33
- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - LACK OF CONSCIENCE?? - desi, 2012-05-05, 11:52
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- The spirit of the law (conscience) gives life. - Oh Yet We Trust, 2012-05-05, 08:03
- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - LACK OF CONSCIENCE?? - Sue, 2012-05-05, 09:23
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- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - LACK OF CONSCIENCE?? - Macbee, 2012-05-05, 12:11
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- Brady - A legal question. - desi, 2012-05-05, 15:04
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- Brady - Letter in the Irish Times. - desi, 2012-05-05, 15:08
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- Brady - Letter in the Irish Times. - Roy, 2012-05-05, 16:21
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- Brady - Letter in the Irish Times. - Roy, 2012-05-05, 16:21
- Brady - A legal question. - James, 2012-05-05, 17:02
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- Brady - A CNA report. - desi, 2012-05-05, 18:55
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- Where was Brady's "Primacy of Conscience"? - Brian Coyne, 2012-05-05, 19:54
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- Brady - is the story this week - Roy, 2012-05-06, 10:07
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- Archbishop calls for sex abuse inquiry - desi, 2012-05-07, 14:58
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- Archbishop calls for sex abuse inquiry - James, 2012-05-07, 17:10
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- Irish people asked to petition for Primate Sean Brady’s resignation - desi, 2012-05-07, 18:00
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- If they want Brady's resignation, this is what they have to do... - Brian Coyne, 2012-05-07, 18:32
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- If they want Brady's resignation, this is what they have to do... - Brian Coyne, 2012-05-07, 18:32
- Archbishop calls for sex abuse inquiry - desi, 2012-05-07, 18:04
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- What did Brady think? - desi, 2012-05-11, 13:03
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- Journalists miss the significance of 'Crimen sollicitationis' - AnnieJ, 2012-05-11, 13:47
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- Journalists miss the significance of 'Crimen sollicitationis' - AnnieJ, 2012-05-11, 13:57
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- The current cover up - James, 2012-05-11, 15:35
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- The current cover up - James, 2012-05-11, 15:35
- Journalists miss the significance of 'Crimen sollicitationis' - AnnieJ, 2012-05-11, 13:57
- What did Brady think? - James, 2012-05-11, 15:47
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- Journalists miss the significance of 'Crimen sollicitationis' - AnnieJ, 2012-05-11, 13:47
- What did Brady think? - desi, 2012-05-11, 13:03
- Irish people asked to petition for Primate Sean Brady’s resignation - desi, 2012-05-07, 18:00
- Archbishop calls for sex abuse inquiry - James, 2012-05-07, 17:10
- Archbishop calls for sex abuse inquiry - desi, 2012-05-07, 14:58
- Where was Brady's "Primacy of Conscience"? - Brian Coyne, 2012-05-05, 19:54
- Brady - A CNA report. - desi, 2012-05-05, 18:55
- Brady - Letter in the Irish Times. - desi, 2012-05-05, 15:08
- Brady - A legal question. - desi, 2012-05-05, 15:04
- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - LACK OF CONSCIENCE?? - Macbee, 2012-05-05, 12:11
- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - LACK OF CONSCIENCE?? - James, 2012-05-05, 07:53
- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - LACK OF CONSCIENCE?? - kaythegardener, 2012-05-05, 07:19
- 'This World - The Shame of the Catholic Church' - Watch the programme - James, 2012-05-04, 07:49
















